Am I being unreasonable to think that good care with one carer at home is better than good care at a nursery?

[gotogirl]

I haven't namechanged, because I am not ashamed of asking this. It is a genuine question.

Following the thread from the mum who wanted appreciation of her parenting skills for having a good-sleeper / well-behaved 3 year old - i know it is contrary to MN netiquette to start a thread re a thread, but this is a related topic, not the same one.

Anyway, that mum suggested if it is all down to luck, she may as well pop her DD into nursery and feed her fruit shoots....cos being lucky, this "adverse" things would not affect the outcome. So, she clearly put "nursery" in the adverse category.

A few people picked her up on this and said nursery is not evil etc.

[Bear with me, this is long, I know]

My question:

does anybody genuinely feel that nursery is as good as or better than being cared for by single carer in home environment?

My thoughts: that the OP from other post is eriously misguided in thinking nursery = adverse environment. But, but....

I struggle to think that nursery is going to be better than one-to-one care at home unless home carer is ill / depressed / incapable etc.

Let's get to the point:

Am I being unreasonable to think that good care with one carer at home is better than good care at a nursery?

BTW, my kids are not cared for one-to-one at hom; I work and this is not possible. but i found what I fgeel is next best thing. I myself do not think it is superior care to what they would get if I were able to become SAHM. But economic reality dictates work for me.

I have two DSs and until June was working full time. DS1 went to nursery full time until he started school and DS2 did about 6 months full time in a nursery. Once DS1 started school I struggled with different drop offs and pick ups etc and ended up using a nanny until I stopped work.

DS2 is now 3 and and has just started nursery for 3 mornings a week as I can see how he will benefit from the socialisation and being a bit independent. He is loving it.

Looking back over the whole childcare thing and my experience of it with my children I regret that DS1 went to nursery full time. It was too much for him and I do feel he suffered. However, I do think some nursery is good for a child. I think a nanny is fine for young babies but after the age of about 2 and half/3 yrs I think they need a mixture of one on one care and nursery. Had I carried on working I would have changed DS2's care to a couple of days at nursery and a few days with a nanny.

In the end trying to balance working full time and a decent family life just became a headache/too tiring and that is why I stopped working. But that's a whole other discussion!

Totally respect decision of each parent as I am sure there are big variances in parents/nurseries BUT for me, nursery is the best decision I ever made for DS (now approaching 3yrs) and I'm desperate for DD (5mths) to go (currently on mat leave), not because I am not loving my time with her but because the stimulation that they receive is so excellent and enjoyable. She's already keen to be with big kids and have more stuff going on than just playing with me and the same old toys.

The nursery my DS goes to was carefully researched and I feel very comfortable with the staff, procedures, activities and care DS receives.

Benefits of it have been:
*Eats EVERYTHING offered
*Listens to instructions
*Shares toys
*Gets on with other kids easily
*Very secure about being away from mummy/daddy for short times knowing he will be home to enjoy us for quality time later
*Early independence of thought and action (dressing himself, shoes on and off)
*Introduction to a world of different people and competition in a friendly way (peer pressure certainly helped potty training!)
*Highly sociable
*Massive range of activities and learning tools/new toys that I would never be able to sustain.
*Also really helped with the idea of new baby arrival as peers were going through the same and they could escape to the place that was 100% theirs each day when he newborn dominated at home.

Downsides:
*Picking up all the bugs (was a downside for first 6mths but hasn't been ill since so probably an upside)
*Dropping them off when they are under the weather and could benefit from some downtime in the comfort of their own home. This is the one thing that really gets me down then I am working but thankfully I have parents who can help out and I also take time off to nurse (then I work all through the night on laptop!!!)

I feel I should say that I do put a massive effort into my time with my DC (lots of ambitious activities, outings, playdates) and as a result my type of parenting would totally wear a person out if they did it 24-7 so its good for me to get distance too and hand over to a nursery who provide a different experience. I could have them at home all the time and do my own housework (I have a cleaner, perk of working) while they sat infront of the TV or played with their own toys for the millionth time, but I am not sure I am relaxed enough to do that over and over and want more for me and my DC....

controversial I know!!!

Yes of course people think that.

Obviously.

Otherwise all the people on MN who work and use nurseries would use a childminder instead.

I don't work full time which is another reason I can accept the nursery time spent away from home as it is a nice balance and contrast but I think if I had to work full time I'd try to get a childminder in the house for some of the days..

Message withdrawn

Hmmm...but the nursery I use has specific rooms for different ages - it is in a big old house.

Each room has two key carers who are there every day or at least one of them there every day. Key other faces. Amazing retention of staff. Know enough detail to notice if child is wearing new clothes, has had hair cut, stages of development etc. When they move up to the next room they do it gradually - an hour or so at a time. So is this different to grandparents etc?

Each room is suitable for the childs age - so in the baby room (up to about 16 months) it is very laid back and peaceful. They have a quet room with rocking chairs and cots / blankets where the lights are dimmed and lots of illuminations and stuff. Another larger area with all sorts of toys. So no difference to home. Actually, calmer and tidier at home than with a 3.5 year old!

I personally, and speaking as someone who lectures on this, don't think that for the majority of children excellent care at a young age is harmful. I wouldnt say it was beneficial - i.e. certainly I wouldnt say put an under 18 month child in nursery if you dont need to but that there is no harm in doing so.

For older children - two years plus - there have been loads of benefits shown in good quality day care.

Unfortunately, I have to put my DS in nursery in January as I have to return to work following maternity leave.

I'm going to miss out on alot.

As soon as my DH has got a promotion or I'm pregnant again, then I won't hesitate to pull him out of nursery and look after him full-time.

I believe that my DS is better off with me.

Unfortunately, not everyone has a choice. I wish the government would do more to help mums stay at home and look after thier children until they are at primary school age.

Yeh I know, it will never happen in a month of Sundays.

I don't want a nanny (although I am sure some are v good).

1. it's one person influencing your child so they'd have to be near perfect in my estimation to mimic me and DH
2. they can let you down v easily - illness, holiday, getting pregnant, moving away
3. children getting very attached to ONE person then losing that person
4. lack of variety/activites/other kids - my key reasons for wanting nursery
5. safety aspect (many people to share responsibilities/procedures to keep them safe and administer first aid, plus totally babyproofed environment). I'm not too trusting you can see....

Christiana - I send two DC's to nursery for many reasons

• Availability

• Reputation of the nursery versus unknown reputation of nanny

• Not having to trust one person (know there are lots of people about and procedures)

• Friendships

• Range of activities

• Cost: Is probably cheaper once food and activities taken into account

• Don't have to worry about nursery being off ill

• Don't have to worry about liking the personality of one person or entrusting one person to the care

• Flexibility of hours

• I know where they are at all times. I dont need to worry about them being out and about.

• Rules and regulations of nursery. I know the nursery building is safe. I know the food is healthy. I know there are first aid trainers and qualified staff.

• Nursery isnt going to go and find a new job

• As I already had one child at nursery I did not want to uproot him when DD came along.

Probably other reasons

totally agree Peppapig

I think Nursery offers a lot to a child

For my boys,childcare has been in comliment to carefrom a family member-aprents with first two, me with second pair- and that chidlcafre has been nursery (montessori, private, school) and childminder depending on where I felt most confident at the time.

For the vast majority of people it's not open choice: possibly it is worse for a child to move often because the aprents can't afford rent without a working Mum (and how many famillies are on reduced incomes these days? a great many), orsimply becuase Mum benefits psychologically from work.

I ahven't worked all that time- Uni for a while, now I to uni part time (MA) and it is my respite time (ASD duo) when ds4 is at his CM, I think I benefit enormously from that and absolutely that feeds back to him.

Most people do the best they can, perfect circumstances with genuinely free choice is open only to the very few

My DD had a part-time nanny. She was a better carer for DD than me because they are more similar in character and have a lot more in common. The nanny is more 'fun' than me. I was a better carer to DS than the nanny was.

My nanny was a part-time nursery worker. How does the quality of care change between her looking after 2 kids in my house and her looking after kids in a nursery?

What makes a nursery different? If it is the child to adult ratio, then are you saying that SAHM mothers of 4 are providing worse care than SAHM mothers of 2?

If it is the communal nature of the care, then are people brought up in extended families worse off than those in a nuclear family?

I think people need to specify what factors in nursery care they consider to be problematic.

It depends on the number of hours spent at the nursery. 8am-6pm 5 days a week for 4+ years is dreary and limiting imvho.

Part-time from age 2 onwards is probably a good thing.

IMO.

What aspects of it are dreary and different to being at home?

Message withdrawn

being at home doesnt pay my mortgage or fulfill me.working and career does fulfil me

so full time nursery it is

had this all planned from pre-pg
nursery place booked 12weeks pg
has all gone to plan

I think it depends on a few things.

• personality/ age of the child
• calibre of the nursery
• no. of hours the child attends.

I dont think nursery is the best option for 10 hours a day, 5 days a week.
But then I dont think one on one care in the home environment 24/7 is the best for a child either.

There is a balance somewhere. My DS (2.3) attends nursery 3 days a week and is home with me on the days I dont work.
For us, it works brilliantly. And yes, I do think nursery on those days is better for him than being home with me 5 days a week. He is sociable, eats lots of foods that he refuses at home , plays with other children wonderfully and is learning sooo much!

Christiana - 'kathy i also think it's about stress - I personally wouldn't like to spend lots of time every day running around with lots of other people and always having to do stuff! I think that it's good for kids to have quite a lot of peaceful quiet time.

I think that the risk is that they start having to compete for attention from a very very young age.'

You see, both of those sound more like home to me than nursery! I have dcs of 3 and 4 and there is lots of competing for attention when they're all here - the baby tends to get forgotten a bit. DD's speciality is needing me to go with her for a wee just when I've sat down to feed the baby
The baby unit, OTOH, is lovely and calm and quiet. The ratio is usually better than 1:3 effectively because at least one child is asleep at any one time and if the number of children each day is not divisible by 3 they have to have more rather than fewer staff (so, eg, there might be 2 staff and 4 babies). And all they have to do is look after babies!

Kathy sounds like here also- ds4is not only the youngest of 4 but there are various Sn in that mix;so nto only are we often 'too busy' wealso have to severely self limit wrt outside actvities, social life, visitors

At teh CMs he gets to meet other toddlers in an environment I trust (she was also Cm to our asd ds3, waswonderfulwith him) and where he is taken to do his fave things- eg feed the ducks (ds3 + water = a no no without an extra adult)

And when he is there, if DH or I are not studying /earning, then we make time for each other. Forexamle todays forst trip to the cinema as a couple in 7 years (and wouldnt you know it, the cinema broke down half way through- typical!)

Extremesare bad for epeople- only home or only nursery are both no-no'stome.But most SAHMs have family or friends close by (unlike me) and children don't attend nursery 24/7 X 7 do they?

I'm sure lots of nurseries are great, and DS1 will be going to a nursery or pre-school once he's entitled to his free hours next year.

However we have a nanny for the following reasons

DS1 hasn't got to stay in the same place everyday. He goes off to all sorts of different places. He loves going on the bus or occasionally a train. He's been to the local animal shelter a few times, taken walks to feed carrots to a horse near us, goes to the butchers and all sorts of different things. As far as I can tell (and I am prepared to be corrected) children in nurseries here seem to arrive in the morning and stay in the nursery all the time, albeit spending some time outside.

He gets one-to-one care from someone who cares a lot about him who will carefully follow any routines or similar I have in place or specific requests I might make. I know a nursery may do this to an extent but with so many children this will of course be more difficult to achieve.

Flexibility. If I need the nanny to swap days round or work a bit later sometimes, she can.

She just arrives and takes over, meaning that there's no rush to get out the door by a certain time. A godsend now we have a new baby as well.

If he's not well she still looks after him if I need her to.

He can have naps at home in his own room with his own routine.

He doesn't miss out on any interaction with other children as he goes to playgroups or similar everyday.

All his and DS2's washing is done and their clothes ironed beautifully. Their rooms are kept clean and the bathroom.

Lots of other benefits as well, particularly handy is the fact that now we have a 6 week old baby I have someone I trust who can take him for two or three hours a week while I get stuff done or have a rest. As DS2 gets a bit older she will gradually start to take him more. I wouldn't be happy with him going to a nursery or even a childminder nearly as early.

YANBU. I agree with you.

"Flexibility. If I need the nanny to swap days round or work a bit later sometimes, she can.

She just arrives and takes over, meaning that there's no rush to get out the door by a certain time. A godsend now we have a new baby as well.

If he's not well she still looks after him if I need her to.

All his and DS2's washing is done and their clothes ironed beautifully. Their rooms are kept clean and the bathroom. "

Someone asked below why people with 2 dcs still use nursery - well, when I looked into the finances, a nanny would cost the equivalent of 3 sets of nursery fees for us, rather than 2. Our nursery fees may be lower than most because it's non-profit-making, but for us the sums don't add up for having a nanny.

I am a sahm for me and my 2 this is most definitely the best. We are lucky as have a good network of other part time/fulltime sahms to go and visit so children have good relationships with other children, adults and me.
If I had to send them anywhere it would be a CM, never a nursery as I feel there is a lot to learn in a home environment.

also some children just don't want peace & quiet - eg my DS. He never, ever, wants quiet time and so being able to run around non stop with other kids making a mess and shouting a lot is great for him. I think being at home 24/7 would not be good for either him or me