to think being able to drive is KEY skill for a woman ( particularly)

[FolornHope]

or not

I got sent a whole load of information recently about reducing my carbon footprint recently and it did make me realise that my car free status was making me a bit smug about the impact of my transport use.

Commuting to work every day on a train still has a high carbon footprint; it is not as bad as driving but it is still there. From an environmental perspective, we should all be looking at reducing our reliance on both cars and public transport. We should be finding ways of living that require more walking and cycling, and doing things closer to home.

I am not prepared to move closer to work, but I am going to make it my new year's resolution to attempt to work from home 2 days a week to reduce the impact of my commute.

Blueshoes, of course car drivers have more flexibility and choice. That is not the same thing as saying that driving as a key skill.

It is clearly possible to participate fully in every aspect of life without a car, which has been demonstrated by many car-free posters on here. That pushes driving outside the definition of a key skill.

There are many things that give people more flexibility and choice - being bilingual for example, but they are not essential.

no - you obviously didn't read my post properly.

There is NO WHERE to park your car NEAR to the shop where I bought the tree.

You would HAVE to carry it quite some distance to the car park. That distance (to either of the car parks) was further than both the bus stop and the taxi rank. If I had walked to the carp park where someone would be more likely to have found parking on a Saturday afternoon I would have been just a few more minutes walk away from my house - so the effort to get to the car park may as well have bee finished off with a couple more minutes to home.

Forlorn - them perhaps you'd like to come to my town and spend 10 minutes explaining to some of the idiots at the bus stop how the time tables work. Yes some might just about mananage to get from one place to another - but co-ordinating two buses and they're totally lost.

"id say " how are you going o get a range of job options if you cant learn to drive"

I know what line of work I'm hoping to go into (doing my degree at the moment), I know where those jobs are based. They happen to be in the main towns which have very easy public transport, if one did mysteriously come up in one of the smaller towns then those would be possible too - just a little more forward thinking.

MillyR, Riven and other environmentalists, what do you think of the increasing tendency to order things online that have to be delivered eg books/CDs, appliances, groceries, erm christmas trees, anything on eBay, things that people would have traditionally popped into a shop for. And online shops like Amazon having free delivery.

Is that better for the environment?

As others have said it might be a useful skill (for some ), but it's not a KEY skill.

For me a key skill is financial management, cooking, reading, writing etc etc, - things that without you WON'T be able to have the same quality of life. Not something that may make life a little easier (if a little more dull )

Awa, you are right then. I find it funny that in your life there is almost no instance where driving is a better option. But I cannot argue with your situation because it must be as you describe

well I'm not an environmentalist ( at least it's not among my reasons for not driving) but I do try and pick the "green" delivery slots when doing my grocery shopping.

I don't (in general) order much stuff on-line really Big things like fridge freezers, sofas etc I might do.

Books/CD's I tend to buy in town..........or plan a big day out shopping in MK and get lots of stuff that you can't in this town (regardless of driving status - we just don't have many shops ).

not to do a car boot? on the bus hourney your dh does that you describe as horrendous?

no - you still want to believe that we can't BOTH be right (ie you and me). I like to believe we're both right.

You prefer having a car, I prefer not having a car.

I do things with public transport, you do things with a car.

So what??????????

Does my choice affect you directly? Does your choie directly affect me.

NO it doesn't.

So stop thinking that your way must be better - because neither "my way" or "your way" are the "best".

I don't car boots - I don't like getting up early in the mornings - actually I lie I did one last year. But it was an "indoor" car boot next door. But I would do the same as the bloke that came with 2 tables worth of stuff in a trailer on the back of his bike.

Which bus journey did I describe as horrendous???

Blueshoes, I think there was a study done on it that demonstrated that it was having a very negative environmental impact.

I suspect that depends on the delivery. A Tesco van tends to be full and is delivering to many houses so is reducing journeys. Amazon deliveries etc tend to increase them, as they often have many journeys with hardly anything in the vans.

I am simplifying, and have no references for this, but that is what I read a while back.

The point is that car driving is not better or worse than non car-driving in environmental terms when comparing 1 individual and another. I suspect many non car-drivers have a lower carbon footprint either because they are 1. environmentalists so are making other efforts anyway or 2. poor and so consume less and do less.

If someone drives 2 miles to work and I go 20-30 miles on a train, then I am not doing well just because I have no car. People have to think about all of their transport behaviour.

The carbon reduction stuff I got in the post also said that transport distances are fairly irrelevant to the carbon footprint of food, which I was surprised by.

Riven, thanks for that.

How about that deliveries by that one delivery truck having to travel longer distances from a central warehouse, than a family would generally be willing to travel by car. And free delivery means that a consumer does not bunch up their shopping (as people who have to travel somewhere by car do or those who want to save on delivery charges) but orders in dribs and drabs resulting in more trips for that delivery truck than otherwise.

Sorry, not Amazon, but things that are delivered by people other than the Postman. Camper trainers will have to be my example.

Thanks, MillyR, that makes sense.

As a very keen internet shopper I would say that I had to learn to manage the stocks in my home more efficiently because I shop less frequently on the internet than I would do at a supermarket for basics like loo roll, laundry detergent, cleaning products. There is an opportunity cost to having to stay at home waiting for deliveries, so you tend to buy in greater bulk so that you only have to stay at home waiting once a month.

Riven, it is a shame that it is not affordable for you to own and maintain a car in your dd's situation. I totally accept that car ownership (including the lessons/tests to learn to drive) is costly and not available to all.

Riven, I mentioned the dribs and drabs because certain websites like Amazon make it quite easy to get free delivery. But yes, if I had to pay a delivery charge like £5, I would aggregate my orders.

anyhow - some of us are never going to agree so I'm about to hide the thread

I don't drive - I'm happy
You drive - I'm happy for you

I don't think it's a "key" skill.