to think being able to drive is KEY skill for a woman ( particularly)

[FolornHope]

or not

ahh now see when we had a car and went long distances I would frequently find myself spending most of the journey trying to keep a child (or 2) awake - sometimes you don't want them to sleep for hours as then they don't sleep at night

The Christmas tree was only an issue because of the frame - if I had purchased them on different days would have been no hassle.

And it wouldn't have fitted in our Ford Fiesta we used to have anyhow, nor would it fit in the car of the man who came out of the shop with his wife and (on overhearing me n the phone to the taxi company who said it was going to be a little wait) said "oh where are you going - we'll give you a lift"............then his wife pointed out that I had 6ft Christmas tree and it wouldn't fit in their car.

So really would have had to find an alternative means of getting it home anyhow regardless of car ownership or not.

Actually I would have carried it all the way home if I actually owned some gloves - I couldn't feel my fingers so kept losing my grip, so it kept rolling off my shoulders.

I used to bring our tree home on the bus! I have now found out that they deliver them for free, so will probably go for that option.

Milly - I did ask about them delivery - and they wanted to charge me some silly price for it - and not until next week, and I walked past the bus stop on the way to the market, did consider the bus, but decided to have a quick look on the market on the way to the taxi rank

I think I need to go to town on Monday and buy some gloves though (which has nothing to do with being able to drive or not, more to do with the fact that if you leave car/house/building at the moment your fingers get rather cold

"You are loathe to admit it, it is obvious to me that there are a lot of situations whereby driving is just the natural no-brainer choice, like purchasing a large christmas tree."

So true blueshoes.

no - because as I just stated - it would NOT Have fitted in the cars we've previously owned anyhow (and DH has never owned a roof rack), and it wouldn't have fitted in any of the taxis at the rank - apart from the black cabs (and I don't know of many small family cars which have space inside/in the boot like a black cab does ). Certainly wouldn't have fitted in any of my friends cars either.

And come on - lets be sensible here - so lets just argue you "NEED" a car to buy a large Christmas tree............still seems an awfully expensive thing to own/run just for the sake of a once a year thing .

And if I'd had a car to fit it in - I would still have had to carry my stuff to whereever I'd managed to park my car (which would have been further away than the taxi rank) - in fact if I'd parked in the car park where you're more likely to find a space I'd have walked virtually all the way home with the tree anyhow!)

The thing about public transport is that you have no control over who sits beside you (sometimes if it's busy) but in your car you don't have this problem. I've had to sit beside some smelly folk in the past, not a lovely experience let me tell you!

I'm not against public transport and I do actually use the train and have used buses abroad but only very rarely (due to reasons I've stated previously). But it is good to have an extra option to get around to really awkward places where buses can't get to. If I want to go hill climbing locally I can't get a bus to that particular hill, it's only accessible by foot and car. No buses go that way, neither do trains. It's daft to try and make out life is rosy all the time when using public transport in certain areas of the country.

I personally can't imagine lugging a buggy onto a coach (and I've only the one DC just now!). I'd be tired out just at the whole thought of it. Much easier to just chuck the buggy in the boot and get strapped into the car and take off.

Thanks lovechoc.

The idea of walking christmas trees and christmas trees on buses makes me think I must have stumbled on some alternate universe, a lot like being on this thread.

Riven, it is fine to think that the world is a nicer place without drivers - I would probably agree. But the fact is a lot of this world is set up for drivers. And insisting that there is no material difference if you don't drive is ignoring the obvious and trying to argue that black is white.

I have a 6ft Christmas tree too and it fits nicely into a Skoda Fabia (tiny car). Puzzled as to how you didn't manage to get yours into a taxi, awas.

We could easily buy a Christmas tree in a shop and get it home in the car, but we shan't - our natural no-brainer choice is to order it on the internet and have it delivered straight to the sitting room

but blueshoes - you'd have had to walk the christmas tree to your car if you'd bought it where I did - so you wouldn't have had it any easier.

Unless you had someone with you to help carry some of the other stuff you had with you. Rather like if you go shopping in a big shopping centre, buys lots of stuff, lots in boxes etc etc - and you still have to walk back through the shopping centre into the multi-storey carpark, into the lift, and walk to your car.

Just the same buying this tree. There was no-where to park "at" the shop even YOU would have had to "walk" the tree

blueshoes you talk a lot of sense, nice to see we are the only two on this thread who can see it from both sides of the coin...

I'm not anti-public transport at all. I would actually like it if bus fairs were alot cheaper and more frequent where I lived, then maybe I'd want to go into town by bus more often rather than using a car. Same applies with the train. If they bring the prices down then more people are probably more likely to use public transport. I think cost has more to do with it than people realise.

Awa, it is not just buying christmas trees ... I used that as an example since it was raised on this thread.

There are different types of cars. We have an estate where it is possible to put the back seats down and fit our christmas tree. It also have a roof rack. We have taken bulky things to the tip in it. Used it for driving holidays in UK with buggies and lots of luggage, even camping holidays with our canvas tent, table etc. Quite essential. Get lots of use out of the car.

well - I suppose if I'd taken the car on my own and put the seats down I could have fitted it into a Ford Fiesta - but certainly not with 3 children in the back. And if I'd gone without children the "walking with tree" issue (plus other shopping) would still have been there - so no different to getting a taxi (actually harder as it would have been further to walk it).

I could have got it into one of the "standard" taxis - but they wanted to put the seat down (so the seats didn't get wet) and charge me for "removals" - (cheeky sods - which is why I should have called my usual taxi company who are lovely and polite).

Ok, let's forget the obsession with the Christmas tree for just a sec - it's more about life in general being easier for transporting goods from shops, or delivering items to a friend's house etc. It's about the flexibility and having that choice. That's why driving is a great skill to have.

It really depends where you live. I can get anything I like delivered - I often go shopping and then get it delivered later in the day. I buy my fruit and vegetables on foot with a shopping trolley (as is customary here) but I could get that delivered too. If I want to get rid of a piece of furniture, someone will come and relieve me of it in the road outside the house.

If the facilities are right, driving is not necessarily a practical option.

no - I think you'll find that you two can only see one side of the coin.

I have a "fully driving" (when we have a car) DH - I am totally non-driving (and fully intend to stay so). You don't want to accept that things are possible without a car that are possible with.

I have mentioned our week long trip to Yarmouth several times - but that included 2 buggies, and a whole load of "stuff" (would probably have taken much less if we'd been camping rather than caravanning ) for our 4 children and ourselves. iirc it was 2 buggies, 4 children (2 in the buggies - 2 walking), 1 suitcase, 1 large rucksack, and a few other smaller rucksacks for the 2 walking children, changing bags, large coolbag etc etc.

We had no car - we still transported plenty of stuff with us. And had a great holiday.

Yes I could get a drivers licence and a car and do things in the car, however I can ALSO do those things WITHOUT a car.

Please stop thinking that life is always so much easier/better/whatever. Its just a different way of doing things, not better, not worse, just different.

Awa, I (or rather dh) have no problem walking a tree (or groceries) to the car in the car park. That is expected. It is part of the annual tree selecting and purchasing experience, which is quite fun. But all the way home for miles??? Sorry, but I keep hearing the twilight zone music.

and yes I could have got the tree delievered from an online shop - but then I wouldn't have got to choose my own - and they'd have charged me more than the tree base, the tree and the taxi home cost me.........just for the tree

you see tis just different ways of looking at it
id say " how are you going o get a range of job options if you cant learn to drive"
and as someone said AGES ago readinga bus timetable takes mmm 10 mins to learn

Riven, public transport can break down. Milk can be delivered too.

As lovechoc says, in certain instances, it will be more convenient and easier to not do things in the car. But equally, there are other situations where the reverse is true.

Car drivers just have more flexibility and choice.

It seems foolish to deny that.