to think being able to drive is KEY skill for a woman ( particularly)

[FolornHope]

or not

piglet, I am sorry you are having a hard time with driving tests. My SIL took years and lots of tests to pass and she, like you, is still not very confident.

However, because she won't do anything beyond driving on the (traumatic, apparently) school run, and there is poor public transport where she is, her dcs are limited in the afterschool activities they can attend.

As for poor drivers, I would rather be in a car than on the pavement or on a road on a bike when I were to encounter one. Even being on a bus puts you at risk of poor driving from the bus driver and other road users.

It does not change the fact that I think driving is a key skill for women, particularly after they become mothers.

blueshoes, i for one feel that i could go anywhere and do anything. camping in france? train to st pancreas, eurostar and camping pack from halfords! job in rural location? traveline. in fact i was a restaurant manager in a semi rural town and managed perfectly well. was never late and have never allowed being a non-driver to restrict me.

For me my confidence at the moment is bad i would rather not drive than put someone at risk with my bad driving or being a wreck, it is a key skill but not essential. my mum,gran managed all those years without it and my mum still does. We are lucky, i have a primary school at the end of my road and a secondary school 10/15 mins walk, we bought our house with good ammenities because of that. I would like to drive but at the moment at £25 a lesson no way that our finances can stretch so will just have to manage with other means.

lissiey, you can do things that are accessible by train, traveline, lifts, bikes etc. But it is a fact that you cannot do things which are only accessible by car - which in my book is a significant amount, if time and comfort are taken into account.

A driver has the option of driving AND/OR train, traveline etc. A non-driver does not.

but what is only accessable by car?

I would agree that driving is non-essential, if you are resigned or prepared to limiting your options in any case.

accessible (sorry)

but i dont limit my options!

no - even if I could drive I would look no further than that town for work. I wouldn't want to be commuting any further, end of.

Actually if I looked for work in Bedford or Kettering - public transport WOULD Be quicker

12 minutes to Kettering on the train, 20 minutes driving

20 minutes on the train to Bedford - 45-60 minutes in the car.

Events I have gone to by car - cricket match in stately home, weddings in rural location where hotel and wedding venue are in different locations, out-of-town shopping centres that only have car parks, driving holidays ...

Accessibility does not only mean the possibility of physically getting yourself there, but also the time, expense, comfort, feasibility (in terms of children to take, luggage you have to carry and weather conditions) of getting there.

Awa, you cannot just compare the train time and the driving time. Train time must include the time taken to get yourself to the train station in time to catch the train and then the same on the other side. As a commuter who does take trains to work, that is how I calculate the travel time. And it could be quite significant once you add that on - 'door-to-door' is the benchmark.

Awa, by limiting your choice to just those towns, you are already limiting your options arbitrarily. Which is fine since you want to do it. Yes, you don't need to drive. Drivers don't want nor have to have those choices dictated for them. They can work in towns not well serviced by a train station.

they're the only town round here that would have jobs in my line of (future) work - well there are few smaller ones - but they're serviced by buses and jobs come up much less frequently in them.

look - have a look on trainline - train to Great Yamouth from Wellingborough/Kettering

Several changes. We did it - with 4 children, 2 of them in pushchairs and enough "stuff" for a weeks holiday.

I feel no more relaxed travelling to a holiday destination in the car for 3hrs with the children bored in the back than I do travelling for 6hrs on public transport.

I guess if you've never done, or it's been a long time since you did wouldn't know, and just think it's all inconvinient.

and fwiw - train station from here - 25 minutes walk, or 3 minutes in the taxi - there is a bus from town (10 minutes walk away) but i've never seen the point of it.

and any out-of-town shopping centre that's worth visiting will have a bus stop nearby ime.

I have been to more "out of town" things under my own steam (as opposed to in a car) than I care to remember - and I need to go and buy a Christmas tree, picture frame, unlock a mobile phone, have a look round the charity shops for some books for DH and get some Christmas cards.

I've got 2 pairs of socks on to keep my feet warm -

ciao

I genuinely feel that in most circumstances I haven't got time to drive. I use the time sitting on public transport to work. Even if a train journey did take 6 hours, that is six hours sat at a table working. The alternative 3 hour car journey is 3 hours of time wasting. You can't multi-task if you are behind the wheel of a car.

Awa, you can justify how your choices are not limited by lack of driving ability in your situation. And I can find examples to the opposite in my situation. Not sure what that proves.

The plain fact is drivers have the option of driving in addition to doing the things you do, if they had any appetite to. Hence, not being able to drive is by definition limiting.

Car journeys are quite handy to time around nap times and bedtimes. Again, a nice option to have.

blueshoes, the way i see it you limit your horizons by only seeing how "easy" it is to get places by car. just as easy to get bus to stately home (nearest stop then walk the rest of the way) you miss so much by only seeing the world through a windscreen. nothing is inaccessible, there are always alternatives, i prefer the alternatives!

I don't drive when it is more convenient or cost effective to take a train. I commute to work for this reason by train. Go around London by public transport.

There is no rule that drivers will ONLY drive. They can pick and choose the best method of getting to a destination. In more than a few cases, driving IS the only or best option.

but drivers very rarely use the other options because they become reliant on cars! just as restricting to drive as to not imo

we may have to agree to disagree here.

A theory: Drivers are more Type A - time conscious, goal-orientated. Non-drivers (by choice) are more Type B - laid back, more time in general to potter and faff.

um, no! as i said earlier in the thread drivers tend to be late more often than non-drivers. we dont have more time, we simply learn to live within its constraints and use it more effectively

and i am plenty "goal-oriented" thank you!

I can see your point Blueshoes, but there are many people who drive and do not have your attitude. My friend, for example, who went to NY with me and couldn't get around because she was too frightened to navigate the subway, having never used public transport.

It is all very well saying that people have more choices if they can drive, but in reality many people end up limiting their choices and experiences by always getting in the car.

There will also be some people who limit their choices by not having a car and as a consequence they don't do certain things. I have to look at it that it saves me x pounds a year and as a result there is nothing wrong with me spending x pounds a year on taxis to get anywhere that is not accessible by car.