to think being able to drive is KEY skill for a woman ( particularly)

[FolornHope]

or not

Yes it is very noticeable how drivers seem to end up being late so often.

The other thing I notice is how they seem willing to take so many useless small journeys instead of going on one journey and doing a series of jobs while on that one journey.

My PIL is happy to go out in the car 3 x a day for bits at the shop, to see a friend round the corner, then pick MIL up.

Without a car, I find I get my shopping online, go and see friends on the bus and tell visitors to get a train, taxi or the bus or walk as we live so close to the town centre it is far more convenient than walking.

my sil will drive her dd to mils house. it is a 5 min walk across a green, the road goes right around the estate so the journey takes an extra couple of minutes!

oh, what IS unreasonable however is when one member of a couple can drive and the other can't yet they choose to live somewhere where the non-driver is at the absolute mercy of the driver and has absolutely no freedom or self-reliance at all.

ime this usually applies to male drivers who take the car to work and female SAHMs who are then left litterally stranded

if my partner could not drive and i did, i would not choose to live somewhere where he needed my help to leave the house!

It is a key skill. It doesn't mean you have to drive everywhere - in fact I prefer to take public transport where it's a convenient option, but sometimes it isn't and then it's nice to be independent.

but why is it a key skill when so many people cope perfectly well without learning? wasnt that long ago when a car was a luxury item, when did it becomae an essential? and to whom is it really essential?

YABU

I passed this year and wish i'd not bothered, it is just something else for me to stress over, pay for and just generally add to my already huge list of responsibilities.

YANBU. Everyone I know who can't drive seems to expect me to give them lifts everywhere. I'm sure its fine if you live somewhere like London, but otherwise its a PITA.

I agree that it wasn't so long ago that cars were considered a luxury item. Not many people owned a car, and as such, there were not so many expectations on people to work odd hrs or travel to areas in the back of beyond.

As more and more people learnt to drive, and got themselves cars, employers began expecting people to travel further and further, shops found they could do business without being central at a cheaper location for the business, thus making non drivers lives more difficult. Vicious circle ensued, and more and more people learnt to drive, so as to have access to places easily that were out of the way.

IME, alot of people do not choose where to live solely based on location and amenities either. Homes which are central to amenities are usually more expensive, and not everyone can afford to live close to all the amenities they need.

What about the people who are in social housing for example? I don't think they have the option to cherry pick where they live, or the people who have moved to another area due to the cost of property in their home town?

Just as a mini rant here, what really irks me is the employers who not so long ago advertised a position which involved driving (ok, so you either can or can't drive) and provided a vehicle for you to use while working for them, in relation to their business, and now, the amount of vacancies where it is a job which involves driving, and the employer fully expects you to use your own car to deliver his wares. Grrrr!!! ok might just be me

for a woman?

No. Any benefits to being able to drive would be the same for man or woman.

well (ime) most "late night activities" involve alcohol - I'm not sure what the issue is with using a taxi. You're not asking someone to give you a lift, you're not even accepting an offer from an acquaintance, you're paying someone for their business - just like using the bus or the train.

I'm sure the taxi drivers aren't complaining

and even if the late night activity doesn't involve alcohol what is the big deal with using a taxi???

"muggglewump I can't imagine ever wanting to take my DC on a bus for the fun of it."

Really Sparklefrog?

IME kids, younger ones anyway, love the bus and train. My DD still does, and many of her friends love coming out with us because it's the only time they get to use PT.
I still remember my first trip on a bus. I was 7 and begged my Mum to take us on one more often!
As my parents had always had a car each PT was something we never used.

agree muggle - because of where we currently live I don't often use the bus with DS3........but he gets very excited when he sees one, and loves going on them.

DS1 and 2 also enjoy using the bus.

5 posts in and I just want to ask: has Xenia morphed into Bonsoir?

My kids love the bus - and the train, the tube, the tram (when we lived in Berlin). Sometimes the car is better though (if getting somewhere involves three changes and then a long walk at the end).

YABU

I don't have a driving licence. I have had lessons. I have failed several tests. Tbh, I don't think my brain works in the right way to be a competent driver. I will probably never pass my test.

I don't feel any less of a woman for being unable to drive, nor that it's a key skill. It's useful and convenient but frankly its not the end of the world if you can't.

nope if there's no buses running at the time of night you leave I still see nothing wrong with using a taxi for those things

What is wrong with expecting a taxi driver to drive for you?

I think they'd be a bit pissed off if we all stopped expecting them to don't you?
They'd be out of a job!

I'll also bet that most people who don't drive don't use taxis very often, as they either can't afford to drive, which make taxis too expensive on a regular basis, disagree with cars, or find bus/train/tube quicker.

DD will discover the fun of riding on the bus when she is 11 then, unless she is taken on the bus by someone else.

Just asked DS if he ever thought buses were fun. Unsurprising to me, he said no, never.

I wont add what else he said.