AIBU to wonder why anyone would want to live like this?

[LetThereBeRock]

I know this could be a controversial topic, most likely will be,and each to their own, none of my business etc but I really can't understand it.

A friend is getting married soon.She's a real bibliophile,as is her soon to be dh, and has asked for several books on her wedding list.

However some of the books she has asked for are rather odd,The Surrendered Wife for example, The Politically Incorrect Wife,Liberated Through Submission and similarly titled books.

I've Googled them and the lifestyle they advocate certainly isn't one that I agree with or would care for.

An example from The Surrendered Wife ' surrendered wife always says yes and is always available for sex."'

I thought at first that the wedding list was a bit of a joke, but I've spoken to her since,albeit briefly, and apparently it's not.

So AIBU to wonder why anyone would want to live a submissive life, and AIBU to think that's it rather odd to request such things on one's wedding list?

I

Totally agree with ISNT. And as the title of the book shows, it all rests on the huge assumption that women nag and men don't. Otherwise it would be called something else. I don't think even the most ardent feminist would have a problem with a book entitled Marriage Without Nagging. But oh no- we have to assume that it's only women who need to be told about not nagging.

MrsRigby,
Would you happily go back to the situation prior to the Married Women's Property Act in 1870 when women were legally chattels and had no rights over their own property, it simply passed to their husbands on marriage ? Or before universal suffrage when the only people entitled to vote were land-owning men over 30 ? Or before Marie Stopes made contraception acceptable and stopped women churning out baby after baby at great risk to their health. Or Queen Victoria stepped in to make gas and air acceptable in labour ?
Feminism now may have less obviously defined goals but we all reap the benefits of those feminists that have gone before us. I may be a bit dubious about later wave feminism and it's current goals but there is no doubt that without the feminism of the late Victorians and early Edwardians we would still be living in a very uncomfortable world.

Fibilou, you really do exaggerate. Things were never as bad as all that! And you have only mentioned the downsides, women then were respected and put on pedestals. They got treated with nice manners and had doors opened for them. How often does that happen now?

Eh ? Are you joking ? I exaggerate ? Have you ever studied any history ?

I think the thing about feminism and when people insist that individuals define it, is that it is an extremely wide movement with stacks of different strands. There is no one "this is feminism". I follow what feminism means to me, and there are areas where I am undecided as to quite what I think, but I am still a feminist.

People who dislike feminism always seem to pick the more extreme branches and use those views as examples, ignoring the millions of ordinary women whose ideas about feminism are simply about trying to get a fair deal for themselves and their daughters.

And those things I mentioned are not exaggeration, they are facts. It's impossible to argue with them, it is what happened.

i think she's joking fibilou

Thank god ! You can never quite tell on here...

TisTheSeasonToBeHully Wed 16-Dec-09 11:18:54
"Fibilou, you really do exaggerate. Things were never as bad as all that!"

Really? Are you saying that women did have legal rights over their property before 1870? Or that they had the right to vote before universal suffrage? Or that they had access to contraception pre-Stopes?

Fibilou has not claimed that all women iwere unhappy or abused before these reforms: she has simply listed a series of very well known facts.

I never joke about feminalism. It's no laughing matter. I stand firmly on the battlements of true womanhood with Mrs Rigby.

sorry another one taken in here

when you have spent a morning reading the kind of posts I have you start thinking anything is possible

ISNT, I agree with you about books that assume all men are X while all women are Y.

That being said, I used to be like your DH when I was with my ex. I'd be terrified of making any big decisions because I knew that if I made a decision and got it wrong (and making a different decision to the one my then DP would've made most definitely counted as "wrong") I'd never hear the end of it. I didn't dare make a mistake because my life wouldn't have been worth living.

Sorry, ISNT, I should've added that I'm sure you're not like my ex. She was an unstable, abusive alcoholic. I was just giving an example of how such situations aren't necessarily always healthy.

Please find a book called Let There Be Cock and buy them that instead.

My friend is quite Surrendered Wife and its not an approach that would work for me but it seems to suit her fairly well. We have more of a Surrendered Husband and Children approach in our household. (In my dreams!)

Snorbs you were on my thread a while ago about a problem I was having and I remember that you made some assumptions about my relationship with DH based on yours with your ex.

I can understand that we all draw on our own experiences, but it is unfair to assume that all relationships with a similar dynamic are exactly the same all the way through.

While DH is indecisive and I am bossy, which sounds like a nightmare, I also take care to temper my bossiness with love and afffection, and when he does (rarely) make a decision or says he wants to do something, then that's what we do, as I want him to feel that what he says is important to me. In other words maybe I already do some of what this book says without realising it . Or as someone said earlier, maybe behaving like this is simply being a grown up.

x-posts snorbs fair enough

Takes all sorts. It makes me sad that women should want to do this to themselves but I suppose it's her choice and at least she's being very upfront about it. I really don't think however that my friendship could possibly survive with someone who chose to let their every move be dictated by another person just because they have a dangly thing.

My youngest sister is not in a serious relationship as yet, but she has told me several times that this is how she wants her married to be like, if she marries.

She firmly believes that the woman should stay in the home and care for the children, do the housework and care for the mans needs.

Obviously since she is not in a relationship she is not being abused. She just believes that this is way things should be.

Personally I think she has been living with our abusive father for far too long and he has fucked with her head. But if that is what she thinks will make her happy, fair play to her. So long as she doesn't side with Dh when he tells me his dinner should be made for when he gets home from work (this when I practise my "whatever you say darling" speech while I pour another glass of wine and turn the TV on ) and she is happy.

My sis has always believed this, even from being small she used to us she wanted to be a housewife and a mother. Different people enjoy life different ways. If you are happy that your friends partner is not an abusive knob then buy her the books and let them get on with it.

Other problem if I handed control over to DH is that we would never ever switch our computers off and move off our arses!

As it is I have just suggested a round of "elefun" (which is a mighty shite game) with DH and the toddler so we will all be doing that for a while!

Will be interested to see how this debate develops, I always feel I learn a lot on these threads.

Just seen your post about her P being a committed Christian but she a former agnostic. I see this relationship going down the tubes fairly quickly if she retains an ounce of self-respect. She's trying to do what he wants too much, possibly because she loves him, but I'm not sure it's sustainable long term.

"I try hard not to be a shrew. I don't nag. I think both qualities are unpleasant. That is not because I am 'surrendered', it is because I am a grown-up and so is DH. Being a shrew and a nag has fuck all to with being a feminist."

I agree. That's why I've been trying to say that IMO TSW also has fuck all to do with feminism. It's a (flawed but interesting) self help group which gives a different perspective on dysfunctional marital relationships where one or both parties are behaving like children, and suggests ways to fix it by stopping the game playing.

fibilou how do you know that change wouldn't have come about without the feminists?

I don't doubt feminists have done some good, but I think it's just getting out of control now.

tistheseasontobehully poor men. Women want to be equals, but still expect men to hold doors open for them etc.

Sorry, haven't read all the posts, but it sounds to me like your friend is trying to be funny by putting these books on her wedding list. She knows everyone will see them and be a bit perplexed and that's the joke. Either that or she is a bit of an attention seeker and likes the idea of all her guests wondering about her and thinking "ooh, she's a bit unusual and mysterious isn't she?"

Slightly digressing, but I suspect not that different... a friend of mine a couple of years back made a big thing of telling everyone she was going to "honour and obey" in her marriage vows - she had no good reason for it, clearly just thought it sounded quaint and old fashioned (but tried to convince us with all that CofE guff about it not really being sexist, just assigning decision-making to one person and in exchange your husband vows to "worship" you). I thought it was most odd, partly as I'm Catholic as we don't have that option in our vows anyway, thank god, and also because I rather suspected her fiancee had put her up to it. Anyway, after all this, on the day, the vicar skipped that part and she could hardly repeat something he hadn't said so she didn't get to "honour and obey" after all! He heee.

Ignore your friends books and buy a gift you will enjoy giving.

Right on, Mrs R. I think people just like change for change's sake and then chuck out the baby with the bath water.

I can't work out if you're for real MrsRigby.