to be upset by this?

[mrsbean78]

I suspect that this may be my last thread on mumsnet, as I think I am going up against a regular.

I posted this thread today:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/877382-Slow-to-gain-wt-baby-panicky-mi dwife?msgid=17836631

I cannot believe that someone would interpret my panic as a reason to suggest, in order, that my 12 day old first born might have a metabolic disorder or have something so serious wrong with them that it might affect their survival.

When I said I wanted to know what the concerns would be, I meant from MY health professionals. I appreciate this might not have been clear.

I appreciate my second post might have been misread but I am very upset and worried about my baby and I really think that the use of sceptical faces was really unwarranted.

As it is, my baby did not gain weight today.. although the midwife was not concerned and will just review it.

Now I have to worry at the back of my mind that my baby might have something that makes him 'just survive' instead of grow..

And people saying I just wanted a pat on the head.. that is so lacking in compassion! I am in floods of tears as I write this..sbsolute floods of tears.. but I guess the important thing here is that I was 'rude' or not considered in my response to someone else (which I actually tried to be, though I was angry..).

I am so, so, so upset and worried. I wish to God I had never posted..

But you´ve only been doing the new plan for 48hrs!

Had he lost or stayed the same?

mrsbean if he had been losing and has now stayed the same, he is improving! Just give him a bit of time. His little body really is busy.

Is he alert, doing wet and pooey nappies etc? You can check for dehydration by seeing if his anterior fontanelle is depressed, or if his skin seems slack and doesn't 'ping' back if you pinch it up (gently).

If he's alert, well hydrated, and is weeing and pooing, these are all good signs.

Maybe, for your own peace of mind, you should make appointments with the doctor and health visitor - hopefully they should be able to reassure you.

Also, is he back to birth weight?
That can take a couple of weeks.

MrsBean - I have been following this thread. And just wanted to pop on to say please give the new plan a little more time. Your bub may not have gained weight, but also has not lost any. You have professionals helping you and a plan is in hand. Please do not let your imagination run wild (easier said than done I know); and try to give it some more time.

Please ignore this post, OP, as not at all relevant to your case; just answering another poster.

AvrilH Mon 14-Dec-09 09:47:14
"Cory - You say that "...how much easier our lives would be today, if somebody had put two and two together then." Do you mind me asking how so?"

If it had been known that dd had a condition that would make it harder for her to suckle I would not have let her get thinner and thinner while I refused to recognise there was a problem: I'd have had those top-ups straight into her (as I later did with little brother). If we had known her ankle pains in junior school were caused by hypermobility, I would not have caused her irreparable joint damage by forcing her to push against the pain. If we had known, we might never have been suspected of Munchausen/sexual abuse when she kept complaining of unexplained pains. If we had known, she would have had adequate support when learning to write. If we had known, dd might not now be suicidal after years of being doubted by adults in authority.

angry - you say long standing members feel it is taboo to talk about mixed feeding. They may feel this but my point is their feelings are unjustified, if they are generalising outward from very occasional posters....a takboard will always have outlier views, but generally it is not something that people cannot discuss.

"People regularly post that mix feeding did not undermine their breastfeeding experience and we are made to feel like silly little ladies for even thinking it" - link, please.

'....the taboo is there because otherwise why would so many people think it was?'

No idea. Disagree it is 'so many people', anyway! A handful of people are mistaken, maybe?

You know if you have read threads on people's feelings about feeding that we have had discussions on the way 'looks' (in real life) can make people feel....and when it comes down to it, the interpretation of these 'looks' is entirely subjective. People feeling rotten about something or embarrassed or awkward or sad or angry can see criticism where none exists.

mrsbean : 48 hours is too soon to guage the success or otherwise of a weight-increasing regime....staying the same is good.

Maybe give the lactation consultant a call and let her explain?

Tiktok, the LC specifically said she would expect 60g gain in that period so I am only going on what I was told? of She doesn't work this end of the week. I have to go to the local baby clinic today to see if he has gained. Also there was some debate if staying static was really a loss as last time he was this weight he had just had a heavy nappy but this time he hadn't.

I can't believe at the start of all this, after I'd been to the GP I was so calm about it and sure it was just one of those individual differences and now all I do is sit here and cry about it.

mrsbean, please don't worry unduly, I do remember what it's like, my mw used to come armed with her scales and a box of tissues because I would always cry. Remember the weight is only one part of the picture. And I remember so well that feeling of 'what more can I do?'

Is he feeding through the night? My ds1 was very reluctant to wake at night when newborn, and retrospectively I think this was v important, as night-time feeds promote milk supply, as well as putting calories into them.

Is he back to birth-weight yet? With my 3 they seemed to relax once they were back to birth weight (though this took 6-9 weeks!!!). My babies were all big though and lost a lot (10lb and lost 1lb+).

If it helps here is a thread from when ds2 was born, under my old name and another here with lots of good advice from tiktok

I've posted these because they have some weights/lack of putting on weight that might reassure you - he is a bouncing 3 year old now (though tbh he is still small, and think he is destined to be small despite being 10lb2 at birth).

Looking back through the thread I linked to, I spotted this post....

"Well, ds had lost 40g today - don't know what to do now - I'm feeding him every 2 hours or so, expressing after every feed, giving him that - feeding now takes upwards of an hour, and then it's time to start again. He's quite alert and his nappies are wet, and he's had a couple of yellow poos, but still lost weight. Any magic suggestions? I'm feeling very discouraged, as have been feeding non-stop."

But we did eventually turn the corner.

i have only read bits of the thread but just wanted to say that both my ds's suck at things - hands, bits of their clothes - when suffering wind. With DS1, it took me ages to realise this, and he was very colicky as a result, as i would assume he was hungry and feed him. he would also fuss when on the boob if windy or overtired, and ds2 does the same. obviously you know your own baby best but i just thought i'd mention it, i wish someone had said it when i first had ds1 as it would have saved me at least a few hours of screaming and crying! it was only when he was a few months old and i started going to baby groups that i learned other people had found the same thing.

mrsbean - I can't explain why the LC said a 60g weight gain would be expected to show up in 2 days. Seems unusually precise advice to me. It would be far more usual to change a feeding regime and then weigh after several days only (as long as the baby appeared healthy - and yours appears healthy).

Sorry you are feeling so down and confused by it all

LilyBolero, it is so reassuring to see that it took 6-9 weeks for your LO to get back to birth weight. He is now static at the -10% of birthweight mark. On the plus side, the bottle of formula yesterday gave me a chance to sleep for four hours straight for the first time in an age and I feel a lot calmer today.

He is feeding for longer which is good news though this is making expressing harder as dh is gone back to work and he doesn't always sleep between feeds.. I've tried doing feeding/expressing at the same time but it isn't really working, I find I am all fingers and thumbs and ended up throwing EBM across the room twice yesterday..

At least the poo seems to be getting lighter! Still only one a day but one is so much better than none (which we had for nearly a week!).

Thanks tiktok..

Oh it's all protocol, I guess? I am sick of how little info they give me about anything.

It's really interesting to me because I work win the NHS in a face-to-face role and over the last year, I have made sure that I have hand written out advice and 'next steps' in bullet points for parents before they leave. I wish to God I had the benefit of this for myself now because this has made me realise how hard it is to remember everything and I've started wondering if that's what she really said or if I misinterpreted.. she definitely said something about 60g in relation to formula and the next part of the care plan and about not wanting to see '20g' here and there. And then there was something said about more expressing.. I am going to take paper and pen and ask for written info next time.

The lack of clarity and information is what makes this most upsetting... I don't think I would be half as anxious if there was a consistent message. As you say, if everyone tells you your baby is healthy but then weighs them every two minutes and their actions say they are more concerned than their words, it sends a conflicting message.
In our service, we had done a lot of talking about the importance of keeping parents informed at all stages of the process through diagnosis because - and know I now this for real instead of just academically - otherwise they will see that what you are doing means that you are more concerned than =you are letting them know and their imaginations will run riot.

Although I wonder if with the m/w team they are being careful with me re: protocol because I had complained about the post-natal care (where the m/w shouted and screamed at me about my poor latch and why wasn't I doing it right etc) and then following this still had to phone up to self-refer to the lactation consultant because the m/w who came in was so busy on her bluetooth that she never actually even looked at the baby, just let it up to the student and wrote down he was doing 3 yellow poos a day in the notes when I said he was doing 1 poo that looked to me like pictures of 'transitional' poo on the internet.

My GP friend had a long talk with dh last night and absolutely reassured him that there is no cause for concern on the health front as far as she can see, because he is so well hydrated and alert etc. He was overdue and he is doing things that a month old should be doing - like he has proper eye contact and smiles and tracks visually very well. She also pointed out that his fingernails and hair has grown so his little system is not as static as it looks.. and I'm fairly sure he is longer too (he was a very long baby anyway). So I am feeling a lot more positive. I am going to go to the baby cafe today too - I'd been there before he was born and I'm sure there was one mum who told me her LO had lost more than 10% of his body weight. Also, I can just check I'm doing this chin-leading latch properly as there will be a m/w and hv there.

Anyway, I should be expressing rather than typing now! So off I go to pump again.. my poor nipples are in overdrive!

MrsB, give it time! You've seen the photos of DD and how she transformed from emaciated to thriving - it did not happen overnight! There were days where she seemed to have lost weight even when she was rising through the centiles, with hindsight, they were obviously poo related!

Thank you Cory, I really appreciate it (and am sure the OP won't mind) - FWIW, I was also angst ridden and suicidal in my early teens, though I don't think that, in my case, it was really related to the hypermobility syndrome, which does not impact on me as badly as your DD. I eventually came to terms with things and became a happy adult. I hope your DD will soon work through it. I am sorry you have had to go through so much. You've really helped me, because if my DD does turn out to have hypermobility syndrome, I'll be aware of what to look out for.

Hi, i have been watching this post and I really feel for you Mrs B. I know it's hard but do you think you could ask for your baby not to be weighed for a week? It might help if you are not so focused on every gram, especially when clothes, wees and poos can all make the weight differnt?

As people have said if other things - nails, hair, skin look healthy and he's weeing and pooing then it means his little system is working properly. Also, and I wish I had done this, step away from google, stop looking at poos on the internet, we are all different!! I became obsessed with my own health after my baby was born and feel I skirted close to PND because of this. Do you have someone, a mum or sister, you could leave your LO with even for a few hours to let you and your husband do something together even if its just the cinema or a pizza?

Have just come back to this thread;

NotAnotherNewNappy wrote

"missismac - you can ask but the way that you asked (i.e. to shout me down rather than offer any pearls of wisdom or support to OP)does nothing to endear me to the aforementioned NCT brigade. IMHE - Mixed feeding is almost a taboo subject on MNet and at NCT classes. "

Apologies if manner of asking was offensive. Didn't think I was shouting? Was trying to be brief so as not to highjack thread. Didn't offer advice to OP as couldn't improve on Tiktok's, & didn't really have anything to add that hadn't already been said. Still think you're wrong though . It's never good to generalise.

I hope things are going well, and you are feeling happier about it all, MrsBean.

Thanks StayingSantasGirl..
I have been eating lots of carbs and it has definitely helped! I think we are turning a corner.. his output has improved hugely and he is feeding much better..

Also, I met another, very helpful midwife and chatted to her about the fact I noted he has a tongue tie and a high arched palate.. others said it was fine as he can protrude but when my brain started working, I did some digging and actually he has very restricted movement laterally, and is doing lots of things that suggest that the tongue tie, while appearing mild, is causing issues.. eg popping off the latch, some clicking noises, chin tremor at the end of the feed, sleeping through breastfeeds yet wide awake and intent for a bottle feed. So when I ran through it all, she sorted a referral and we are having a frenulotomy on Tuesday. I am hoping this is what makes the difference..

Much calmer now! Amazing what a tiny bit of food and sleep does for the human brain!

That all sounds positive!

Well done MrsBean. Welcome to life as a mum, you never stop worrying. Hope you all have a lovely frist xmas together

Also sorry missimac - think i may have overreacted to your post a little.

I'm so glad that you are feeling better, MrsBean, and hopefully the frenulotomy will help sort things out finally for you.

Have an unmumsnetty Christmas hug!