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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that a child with SEN should not be exempt from some attempt at behaviour control.

185 replies

NaccetyMac · 12/12/2009 20:14

Today at a fete, a small child took a toy from my DS1 and was playing with it. I told him (pleasantly) that it was DS1's toy and asked for it back. His mother turned around from her (clearly very important) convo to at me and say "he's disabled, he don't understand." And make no attempt to take the toy from the child.
So I explained to him again that it was not his toy, found him another toy to replace it with, gave it to him and took DS1's toy away out of sight. Mother turns around and says (again) "HE'S DISABLED, HE DON'T UNDERSTAND."

OK. SO get off your bum, stop ignorning him and HELP him to understand.

Really angers me, that some people appear to think that an additional need gives them carte blanche to ignore behaviour and totally fail to apply boundaries!

OP posts:
SantaWears2shoes · 13/12/2009 10:32

soory have re read the op but it doesn't say anywhere that your child has sn.

TotalChaos · 13/12/2009 10:38

I misunderstood, I thought it was a toddler group/communal toy set up, not your own toy. I think the mother could have made more of an effort, even if just to say -please can I try and sort this in five minutes when my child's distracted.

daisy5678 · 13/12/2009 10:45

YANBU

Ok, the tone of your OP's a bit but I agree with your main point, that the mum should have stepped in if the boy didn't understand.

I think some people who I know in real life do use their kids' SN as an excuse to let them do whatever, and I don't think it does anyone any favours. J is often horrifically extreme in his behaviour. I've got good at judging what is choice and what is beyond his control and dealing with the behaviour differently depending on which it is, but the main thing I stick to is that his behaviour should never become someone else's problem if I can help it. So I would have taken the toy off J, given it back to you and apologised. Sadly, J's problem behaviour was usually more likely to be 'J threw a knife at my child' or 'J has bitten my child's leg' and so the apologies were not usually accepted!

TotallyAndUtterlyPaninied · 13/12/2009 11:00

Only read first page but...

OP made the effort to give the boy a different toy so he was happy and DS1 was happy. Really that was the responsibility of the other child's mum.

So YANBU. She should be teaching him something. Why should other children suffer because she can't be bothered to do what OP did?

sarah293 · 13/12/2009 11:04

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daisy5678 · 13/12/2009 11:07

I don't think the OP's point (unless I'm being dense) was that the mother should have been teaching him a lesson really (though the title did give that impression a bit). I think the OP really means that, if the child doesn't understand, the mum should have stepped in.

Goblinchild · 13/12/2009 11:09

That's how I took it as well.
As I've said before, my lad has a mobile and his calls when he's out and about on his own are often to get me to explain something he has come across in the world that he doesn't understand and wants explaining.

Original poster
NaccetyMac · 13/12/2009 11:10

^WSS. Tone is tricky on here!

I said about my own child's SN in my second post, because I realised at that point that people might think it relevant.

OP posts:
FanjoForTheMankySocks · 13/12/2009 11:12

well, lots of others have said she should be teaching him.

Goblinchild · 13/12/2009 11:18

That's because it's in chat/AIBU rather than on the sn boards.
Some of us know how unrealistic it is to try and reason with 10 stone of meltdown who is 8" taller than the parent.
So we wouldn't be woffling on about teaching him to understand at that moment. Mine can be reasoned with after the event and when sentience has returned, or pre-empted if I'm with him and spot trouble on the horizon.

daisy5678 · 13/12/2009 11:19

I agree that children with a capacity to learn should be taught. J has changed from what many described as a 'feral' dangerous, violent child, who my own mother stayed away from as she was scared of him and his violence, to a child who is now able to walk away when angry and who has begun finding his own anger management techniques off the internet. Part of that is age and greater maturity (and meds) but part of that is being taught again and again and again what is acceptable and what isn't. It's an insult and disservice to SN kids with average intellectual ability not to 'teach' them the ways of the world, imo, but every SN child is different and everyon has different capacities for understanding and changing. I just can't stand the writing off of SN kids.

VirginPeachyMotherOfSpod · 13/12/2009 11:22

I only read the OP before posting deliberately, didn't want to get defensive or upset. I will read it all later.

Yes and no to the OP. i'd never have allowed the boys to do that (take a toy) but equally i'dnot pucish or discipline in that environment- teaching the boys (ASD takes many hours of apintsaking wotrk and also telling them off inpublic (part. ds3) tends tor esult in a massive meltdown which is no help to anyone.

Dh tends to do the 'he's disabled' buit mroe than I do but I understand why,he hates the idea that people think he'sa bad aprent when the boys create (and we do get that) and is defensive: it also does nip any remonstrations firmly in the bud 80% of the time.

It's not Ok to allow your child to takeanother's toy of course (was Mum paying attention? I don't always, exhaustion) I woonder?) but then peoplemake bad decisions regardless of the SN status of their child.

VirginPeachyMotherOfSpod · 13/12/2009 11:30

''I agree with the op.

What will happen to that child in later life when he believes he can take anytyhing he likes from anyone without consequence?'

Its possible he will never learn about consequences because he doesn't have the capacity to do so. Some children fucntion at a newborn level for ever. But with working bodies.
Not easy to parent and certainly impossible to teach consequences or rules or anything really.'

sadly true riv

But it can be even harder to work out than that- ds1 (as rive knows) is a bright boy with lots of NT levelabilities but does not get cause and effect at a social level at the age of 10 despite many years of supreme effort (the MA I am doing in ASD is not for fun I can assure you- it is from desperation). He has a provisionaloffer at a specialist AS school for Comp, and it is mainly that complete lack of cause and effect (plus organisation)- it's such a little but important concept to lack, and is at the root of all his aggression and learning issues.

And he truly would not understand why he couldn't take that toy, much less ds3 who is much mroe severe and in an SNU placement. We are trying to get him to learn- I start ABA training at Uni next month- but if I can manage that I will have ofund the key to so very much.

sickofsocalledexperts · 13/12/2009 11:38

I think the mother here was uncharacteristically lazy. Me, and most of my SN mum pals, are more watchful than an SAS storm squad when taking our kids out and about in town, nipping even an attempt at bad behaviour in the bud before it's so much as a thought in our DC's heads! I never let my DS get away with bad behaviour due to his autism, in fact I think I give him firmer boundaries than do the mum of many normally functioning kids. But it is about 500% harder, because even him standing/sitting still and being quiet requires a supreme effort on both my and his behalf, and it is just plain exhausting after a while. TBH, it would be easier to stop taking him out and about, into busy shops etc, but I refuse to go down that route and hide away. I think the mum in the OP was a bit crap, SN or no SN, but I would say to anyone who sees a mum struggling with what looks like a "normal, but naughty" child, give us the benefit of the doubt. Say something kind even, but don't stare, it really hurts!

VirginPeachyMotherOfSpod · 13/12/2009 11:42

I know what you mean sickofsocalled,I feel like that often and love th4e SAS quote- absolutely LOL. But I admit to off days sometimes,I think most of us have them don't we?

sarah293 · 13/12/2009 11:45

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sickofsocalledexperts · 13/12/2009 11:47

Yes, I had an off day in Starbucks the other day - DS went and sat at another family's table, and even though I explained his autism they were quite offish. I just burst into tears, two small children in tow. And do you know every single person in that busy shop just stared - not one kind word, or offer of help, nothing. When my little girl looked a bit embarrassed that we were the centre of attention, I told her - don't be embarrassed about me crying, be embarrassed for those 75 people who didn't offer any help. I would always offer a crying mum some help.

5inthesleighbed · 13/12/2009 11:50

"What will happen to that child in later life when he believes he can take anytyhing he likes from anyone without consequence?

Very bad way to go the mother is doing him no favours."

How ignorant. You have no idea about dealing with a child with ASD. I could try explain consequences to DS2 until I am blue in the face, he still wouldn't get it. And I think it has been pointed out several times on this thread how hard it is.

Sickof, I have the reflexes of a sniper since ds2 came along. I've also grown an extra pair of eyes for the same reason.

smallwhitecat · 13/12/2009 11:51

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Goblinchild · 13/12/2009 11:58

So what would you have done in the OPs position?
Given up the toy, or waited for an undefined amount of time until the possibly child tired of it?

saltyseadog · 13/12/2009 11:59

As the mother of a child with profound learning disabilities I know that ALL the help in the world will help my dd to understand. Fact.

That is not to say that I would not have removed the toy from my dd, but I also know what it is like to be out in public and feel close to tears about her behaviour and how Joe Public are perceiving it - her chosen habit when frustrated is to squawk loudly which is often met with tutting. It's often very hard for families like ours to go out without feeling judged.

OP - I think some empathy towards others' situations would not go amiss. You know the age old adage of walking a mile in others shoes ?

SantaWears2shoes · 13/12/2009 11:59

OMG you mean we arn't all saitys, standing by our child and never daring to having "a (clearly very important) convo"
how very dare us.

Goblinchild · 13/12/2009 11:59

Well, that didn't make sense. I meant that she could have been waiting for hours if the child didn't want to let go of the acquired toy.

saltyseadog · 13/12/2009 12:00

I know that ALL the help in the world will not help my dd to understand.

TotallyAndUtterlyPaninied · 13/12/2009 12:01

Some people are getting riled about the SN when although it is in the OP, it's not really the main issue.

The main issue is that the other mother should have done as the OP did and swapped the toy. There was no fuss and both boys ended up happy. She didn't bother to do that.