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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that a child with SEN should not be exempt from some attempt at behaviour control.

185 replies

NaccetyMac · 12/12/2009 20:14

Today at a fete, a small child took a toy from my DS1 and was playing with it. I told him (pleasantly) that it was DS1's toy and asked for it back. His mother turned around from her (clearly very important) convo to at me and say "he's disabled, he don't understand." And make no attempt to take the toy from the child.
So I explained to him again that it was not his toy, found him another toy to replace it with, gave it to him and took DS1's toy away out of sight. Mother turns around and says (again) "HE'S DISABLED, HE DON'T UNDERSTAND."

OK. SO get off your bum, stop ignorning him and HELP him to understand.

Really angers me, that some people appear to think that an additional need gives them carte blanche to ignore behaviour and totally fail to apply boundaries!

OP posts:
stillenacht · 12/12/2009 20:44

MASSIVE

MattBellamysMuse · 12/12/2009 20:44

I agree that the child's SN is irrelevant. If he wasn't able to understand that he should give the toy back then the mother should have given the toy back.
As someone said earlier, we've all done the same when our children were babies and took a toy away from another child because they're unable to understand that it's wrong.
And the mother had no right to be angry with the OP.

5inthesleighbed · 12/12/2009 20:44

Ah Stillen, the best words in the English language "first" and "then". They work wonders don't they

5inthesleighbed · 12/12/2009 20:47

Oh, and OP, SEN is a completely different ballgame to SN.

SEN = Special Education Needs. Any child at school can have SEN, not just disabled ones.
SN = Special Needs, also known as disabled.

stillenacht · 12/12/2009 20:50

Indeed - thank God for them I say!

Original poster
NaccetyMac · 12/12/2009 20:50

I apologise for the lack of distinction.

The students I work with have PMLS and complex needs, BTW.

OP posts:
5inthesleighbed · 12/12/2009 20:55

Sorry, didn't mean to sound rude before. I blame the wine

Original poster
NaccetyMac · 12/12/2009 20:57

PMLD even. slaps self You didn't sound rude. It was a mistake in terminology!

OP posts:
Glitterknickaz · 12/12/2009 21:05

I have seen the OP put face paint on a child that never usually lets ANYONE touch him.

To this day I don't know how, and for OP's info it's never been done since!

chegirlwithbellson · 12/12/2009 21:29

This sort of brings up an issue for most parents of children with SN. As a lot of us tend to go to events with a huge mixture of children with SN incidents can happen.

My DS still talks about being battered in the tunnels under the merecat enclosure at london zoo. I suspect the batterer had quite severe behavioural issues but he still really hurt DS. I tried to explain to DS but its hard when your child has LD. I didnt really know how to feel about it myself. I understood that the child probably didnt have a full understanding of what he was doing but I still wish his parent/carer was keeping more of an eye on him.

But at events like this its nice to be able to relax a bit because you are not always being given dirty looks by other parents because your child is not behaving 'normally'.

sarah293 · 12/12/2009 21:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

coppertop · 12/12/2009 21:41

YANBU in expecting the woman to give the toy back but YABU to expect the child to necessarily be capable of understanding.

MaggieAnFiaRua · 12/12/2009 21:43

The exact scenario you spell out would be annoying, but the statement in your heading is ignorant.

my ds is on the spectrum and things like getting an injection, buying shoes, having a hair cut, even somebody trying to take off his coat, often end in a melt down and i feel demoralised enough with all their stares and disapproval... when my son goes into minimeltdown mode, he doesn't HEAR me trying to reason with him. It's just another noise buzzing in his ears. But i have to annoy him, a bit MORE, just to keep nosy ignorant strangers happy.

(some of them, not all obviously)

sarah293 · 12/12/2009 21:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

thederkinsdame · 13/12/2009 00:38
Biscuit
FuckingNinkyNonk · 13/12/2009 00:54

'to think that a child with SEN should not be exempt from some attempt at behaviour control.'

Who says this child was. How do you know that the Mother's attitude wasn't all to do with behaviour control?

All things being equal, the mother should have at least tried to return the toy but you don't know why she didn't. She may have had good reason. She may have been assessing the situation when you stepped in and so therefore thought 'fine, you deal with it then'. I often have to spend a bit of time 'assessing situations' and this often involves pretending to be quite engaged elsewhere. Also my parenting standards can't be quite the same as Mrs Perfect, down the road because I keep my ds just about under control for the big things but it takes 99% of my energy on an ongoing basis, just holding a toy of someone elses might not warrant my last breath.

HappyChristmasFromKimi · 13/12/2009 00:55

Very lazy parenting there, so easy to say "HE'S DISABLED, HE DON'T UNDERSTAND" rather then do anything about it.
I have a 13 year old with AS and Tourettes nd he gets away with nothing, I hate parents who use a SN a an excuse not to parent their child well.

FuckingNinkyNonk · 13/12/2009 01:13

You see I don't think it is necessarily lazy parenting at all. It is hard having a child with SN. It is important with many disabilities to be extremely consistent with behavioural strategies and nip them in the bud but the effort required to do this, and to do it constantly is far and above the efforts parents of NT children have to make. I'm pretty strict with my asd ds, but even I sometimes just think 'sod it. No-one's getting hurt'

kinnies · 13/12/2009 01:14

I've been to soft play with my Ds (then aged 3) and a child repetidly kicked him. I told the child to stop, moved my son away and the other child kept following us and trying to kick Ds. I ended up raising my voice at this little boy and his mum and aunt came running over and shouted at me for not understanding their little boys sn.
I was with the mum, not the child of corse. My son has rights as do other children sn or not.
Most parents with children with sn are responsable. This mum was a dick and not looking out for her childs wellbeing. I think he had asd so would have been scared and out of his depth.
You get parents of all types with children of all abilitys(sp?)

squashimodo · 13/12/2009 01:34

My four year old ds is lfa. He does not understand boundaries at all, takes other children's food and toys all the time. If I remove them from him he will scream, kick and bite me. I have to restrain him in public, he is very strong now, and heavy. I would have apologised and asked you to wait until his attention was elsewhere so that I could remove the toy without my ds noticing. Being a parent of a child with autism is completely different to being a teacher. It is bloody hard, emotionally draining. Sometimes it is best to take the path of least resistance with you dc, sometimes I can not face yet another struggle.

VicarInaTinselTuTu · 13/12/2009 01:35

actually as the mother of a child (who is now 18!) of a child with SEN i think you are not being unreasonable. so the kid was disabled - doesnt give you carte blanche to do what the hell you like does it? so i think she should have sorted this instead of using her sons disability to excuse any type of bad behaviour whatsoever.

i always righted my son, even if he didnt understand. thats HOW he learned to undersand! he has aspergers.

id have slapped the mother and excused the child!

squashimodo · 13/12/2009 01:41

The thing is Vicar, asd is a very wide spectrum. I have 6 year old and 3 year old both of them are high functioning autistic. Both of them are capable of understanding, although less than an nt child, I can eventually explain to them about the toy and make them hand it back, especially my 6 year old who is obsessed with rules. My 4 year old has very little understanding, I can not explain to him, and I have to take a different approach with him.

squashimodo · 13/12/2009 01:44

If my 4 year old does not understand something, it is not 'bad behaviour'.It is because he simply does not understand, and snatching the toy from him and causing a meltdown is not the best way for him to learn anything.

VicarInaTinselTuTu · 13/12/2009 01:44

i should have said SN shouldnt i....but i still feel the same anyhow. i think my sons autism qualifies as SN, his dyspraxia probably does too and his dyslexia may count as a SEN. it matters not. i never allowed him to be a horrible to other kids or take toys. if he did that he got removed from the situation.

he has learned how to interact with others really really well now. im not sure he would have learned if he hadnt been shown what is and isnt acceptable.

squashimodo · 13/12/2009 01:51

I agree with you Vicar, and well done for finding approaches that worked well with your ds. All I am saying is that that approach would not work with my 4 year old, but would with my 6 year old and 3 year old. I am sure that if I was with my 4 year old the op would have been criticising and judging me. Sometimes I am too shattered to apologise, and I often forget because I am busy watching my autistic son to make sure he is not in danger. Also if a stranger has told him off, or shouted at him, or touched him, or tried talk to him, that would be enough overload for him, and I would have to make sure my lfa son is not about to go into complete melt down due to the complete overload.