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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that a child with SEN should not be exempt from some attempt at behaviour control.

185 replies

NaccetyMac · 12/12/2009 20:14

Today at a fete, a small child took a toy from my DS1 and was playing with it. I told him (pleasantly) that it was DS1's toy and asked for it back. His mother turned around from her (clearly very important) convo to at me and say "he's disabled, he don't understand." And make no attempt to take the toy from the child.
So I explained to him again that it was not his toy, found him another toy to replace it with, gave it to him and took DS1's toy away out of sight. Mother turns around and says (again) "HE'S DISABLED, HE DON'T UNDERSTAND."

OK. SO get off your bum, stop ignorning him and HELP him to understand.

Really angers me, that some people appear to think that an additional need gives them carte blanche to ignore behaviour and totally fail to apply boundaries!

OP posts:
VicarInaTinselTuTu · 13/12/2009 01:53

god please dont lecture me - he is 18 and i really truly have been there, done it and got the t shirt.

but you parent your way and ill parent mine. i have totally done the right thing by my son, he is a well adjusted young adult with disability. it doesnt define him and it doesnt excuse him from wrong doing either, it means he sometimes needs more understanding, and thats fine, but when it comes to right/wrong he knows the rules. he has fallen foul of them a few times, like when he wrote a computer programme that emptied my bank account in phone topups. i made him sell all his games to pay it back. and he did it. and he knew what it meant to take something that didnt belong to him after that.

he has had to learn right from wrong. despite being disabled. despite not understanding why some things are considered wrong. he has to live in the real world and that means learning what is and isnt allowed.

VicarInaTinselTuTu · 13/12/2009 01:54

oooo sorry squish x posted - i thought you were giving me a hard time there....i see from your next post your werent.

apologies - im knackered and need bed.

squashimodo · 13/12/2009 01:57

Yes, as I said my 6 year old is possibly the same type as your ds. HE is highly intelligent, gifted but has asd/adhd. My 4 year old has quite severe autism, learning difficulties, no comprehension of language, and absolutely not understanding of boundaries. A different kettle of fish. I am trying to teach him about boundaries, but it takes along time, and being shouted at in public will set him back, and he will not 'learn' about rules when he is having a stonking violent meltdown.

squashimodo · 13/12/2009 02:00

Ah s ok.
I should be in my bed aswell.

VicarInaTinselTuTu · 13/12/2009 02:10

my DS also used to have stonking meltdowns. i remember once, when DS was 4, having to get school to call DH and we had to literally pick him up in a firemans lift and take him home kicking and screaming because he didnt understand that outdoor play had finished and the school couldnt get him to go indoors, they phoned me. he didnt understand how things worked at all.

we just had to persevere, explaining things in advance, explaining how long things would last, he understood time so if he got a 5 minute warning before things ended he could cope, he hated surprises, he needed warning what was going to happen next all the time. we did find strategies that worked. and i understand what your saying, but does this excuse a child from simply taking something that isnt theirs? how does that work in 10 years? in 20 years? in the case of the OP it does sound like the mother couldnt be arsed.

VicarInaTinselTuTu · 13/12/2009 02:13

anyway....he is still up...id better go and see what he is up to....he is attempting to raid my cupboards i think...fwiw it did get miles easier with mine the older he got.

no hard feelings i hope squash - i know its not easy.

FanjoForTheMankySocks · 13/12/2009 02:17

omg,you have no clue what parents of kids with sn go through, seriously, my dd is autistic and doesn't understand, I would give anything to be in your position and preaching about discipline rather than having a child who doesn't understand. You have no idea how lucky you are.

FanjoForTheMankySocks · 13/12/2009 02:24

sorry, that was a bit blunt. But really, having a child who doesn't understand is quite soul-destroying compared to your child having a toy taken away.

crazycat34 · 13/12/2009 06:11

I absolutely understand the situation in respect of the other child and his ability to understand the situation, but another child had a toy taken from them and they didn't understand that either (presumably - without knowing his age).

If no effort was made on the part of the mother to return the toy that is what was wrong, not the child taking it in the first place.

2kidzandi · 13/12/2009 07:21

Erm OP was this a school fete? because it occurs to me that maybe when the parent said he didn't understand, she meant he didn't understand what you were saying at all? My cousin was born with auditory processing dysfunctionalism ie, he can hear you speak, but his brain couldn't put it together coherently. Or perhaps he may have had hearing problems?

I could be off the mark. However, I wil say unless you have children with SEN who are you to judge? After all, a parent has to deal with the difficulties and challenges 24/7. So yes she may not have been particulary bothered that day. She may have had an exhausting week. God knows I switch off from mine sometimes. i hear the Muuuummmm G did so san so to me, and I can't always be bothered.

Just because she wasn't on the ball this time doesn't mean she isn't usually. I don't care how often you work with children with SEN, it cannot be the same as if it were your own. Have some compassion! I sure your DC wasn't traumatised by the experience. I'd save my scorn for the parents of unruly children with no SEN whatever.

littleducks · 13/12/2009 07:30

I think the mother was wrong not to return the toy, surely it would have been easier to say: "He's disabled he doesnt understand" while passing back the toy

I think that you are wrong to expect child to understand but not wrong to expect toy back

pigletmania · 13/12/2009 08:10

YANBU ok the boy has SEN but thats no excuse for the mother not to intervene. I used to work with adults with LD and we would intervene or how do i put it for the want of a better word correct them if their behaviour was not appropriate or displayed inapropriate behaviour towards another member of the public whilst out in the community. The was one chap with autism, big guy but you would not think that he had the condition you could not tell, he like to hit babies in prams whilst out and did so even though the carers with him tried to restrain him, but too big and strong for the two females looking after him. They told him that it was wrong and made him apologise to the parents of the child, but of course they were too distressed and upset about their baby being attacked like that.

We would take him to places where the likelihood of encountering a baby or young child was minimal but you can never be 100%

pigletmania · 13/12/2009 08:14

The mother could have done what you did, taking the toy from her child and giving it back and giving him another one, that is just not caring imo as she carried on her conversation without even trying or making an effort.

pigletmania · 13/12/2009 08:19

It depends on how severe the autism is from what i gather, the chap mentioned and another couple of adults i used to work with would not understand, you could talk to them all day until blue in the face and they would not have a clue just repeat the behaviour, there was also a couple of people with less severe autism living independently in the community who if you told them that their behaviour was not acceptable would ackowledge it and try hard to improve. Yes of course i would make allowances for the child but the parents unlike the one described by the op should have at least made some effort herself, she obviously had more important things to do.

sarah293 · 13/12/2009 08:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

TotalChaos · 13/12/2009 09:05

good post riven. sometimes you have to pick your battles - and a stolen toy isn't really in the same league as randomly attacking babies/kicking other children. btw also agree with 2kid - that the don't understand comment may well have been a simple statement of fact about receptive language.

christmasgoblin · 13/12/2009 09:07

seems to me the OP's gripe is not with the fact that the child is disabled but taht the parent seems to be ignoring the child.

v sad.

gobsmackedetal · 13/12/2009 09:07

Maybe YABU to expect him to "learn" boundaries, depending on his disability, but YANBU to expect his mum to give your DS the toy back.

Even if he "don't understand", it looks to me like she had understood very well and chose to do absolutely nothing about it!

pigletmania · 13/12/2009 09:10

Totally Riven of course

SantaWears2shoes · 13/12/2009 09:20

yabu
from your op it sounds like the toy wasn't your dd's. if so no biggy,
if the child has sn, chances are it could have all gone very wrong for her, but a good cnance to teach your child about sn.

if it was your childs toy, then the mother should have given it back.

FanjoForTheMankySocks · 13/12/2009 09:33

not sure how sad it is that she was ignoring him, you could talk to some children with asd all day and they wouldn't appear to even hear you so you tend to give up for a bit sometimes.

muminthemiddle · 13/12/2009 09:51

I agree with the op.

What will happen to that child in later life when he believes he can take anytyhing he likes from anyone without consequence?

Very bad way to go the mother is doing him no favours.

FanjoForTheMankySocks · 13/12/2009 10:08

i give up. People just aren't getting ASD. And i didn't before I had DD, tbh.
Will leave you to your condemnation of this poor woman and kid.

Goblinchild · 13/12/2009 10:12

He'd come across someone like my son, who at primary age would have belted the one who snatched the toy, and taken it back.
Because he has sn.
So YANBU to expect the parent to act as intermediary/interpreter/filter and general buffer between her child and the world.

Original poster
NaccetyMac · 13/12/2009 10:30

The toy was DS1's, as I said, DS1 has SN of his own. Not that that matters at all. I had no issue with the child, and I did not precipitate a meltdown by swapping the toy with him for another, he accepted it with no problem. My issue was that the mother did not bother to try and sort out what was happening. At all.

Her DS obviously had far more difficulties than my son, maybe we should have played SN top trumps? Nothing I like better than a bit of competitive woe.

OP posts: