To Get Back Together with mt Previously Abusive Ex

[JustCause]

I have namechanged for this because anyone reading the first few lines will probably think I have gone insane. But I am a regular and have posted about the relationship before.
Anyway.
My then DP left me for OW at the beginning of the year. Even though our relationship was barely-there, I thought it would work out. Our DD wasnt even a year old and I was very wrapped up in her and too exasperated/weary of his behaviour to really care about what he thought.
I knew it wouldnt work out with OW and it imploded spectacularly when during one of their fights he hit her twice and she called the police. After initially saying they would work it out, she then changed her mind and told him it was over.
He then contacted me 2 weeks later and told me it was over between them. I agreed to see him and was stunned that after all he'd done I still had feelings for him.
I hadnt expected to.
I hadnt seen him for months which was my doing.
We have a hell of a history so I have my reasons for wanting to give him another chance. He is hugely apologetic and
HERE IS THE IMPORTANT PART.
Has agreed to go on a Pat-Craven type course for abusive men. I wouldn't have agreed to us getting back together if he hadnt.

He is now several weeks into the course and attending every week and on time.

He has been a selfish, nasty, dangerous prick at times but I believe this has been a wake-up call for him.
For one thing he has faced three nights in a police cell and for another there have been other consequences. OW has exercised her right to press charges (after initially deciding not to) so that has led to other stuff I dont want to go into here.

I dont know what the future holds, but if there's a chance he wants to change, and does and we are able to be a family again, AIBU for wanting to be back with him?

mrswill

It's lovely to hear a happy ending. Well done that girl!!!

I might be wrong, but IME, very few women remain in these relationships through fear alone, there is usually also hope the abusive man will change and strong feelings towards the man, as well as low self esteem, low confidence, conditioning and head fuckery.

I do however accept that for a small percentage of women, there is no hope the abusive man will change, and no love, only a deep fear.

Sadly, the OP doesn't seem to fall into the category of only fear preventing her from ending this relationship, by her posts.

I had so much to say when I started reading this thread, but like everyone else, I can't believe the OP would put the life of her child at risk for a man like this

however, I didn't have a child with my abusive exP but I have been in pretty much the same situation as you

he hit me, I stayed...he promised not to do it again... he hit me again, I left, he threatened to kill himself, I stayed... he hit me so hard in the head I passed out on the bathroom floor and bled from my nose... I stayed.... he slept with my best friend and got her pregnant, I stayed... he hit me and broke my jaw... I stayed... he hit me, I moved out, HE LEFT ME FOR ANOTHER WOMAN, I cried for him back, we got back together, he hit me some more...

I eventually left and never looked back.

this is such a hard thing to admit but I remember the day the woman he got with after me told me that he had hit her once too, I felt appalled but a little tiny bit of me felt a sense of relief that it wasn't my fault, he was actually just a bastard who hit women how bad is that? I'm sad to say that was the very moment I let go of any misplaced guilt I had that it was "my fault, and that I made him hit me, I provoked him"... I still feel guilty to this day but you know what's even worse? I warned her, I warned her what he was like and she didn't listen!

anyway, you cannot change these men, stay away for the sake of the only good thing to come out of this pseudo-relationship YOUR INNOCENT CHILD.

sometimes I rue the day I discovered Mumsnet

night all x

but set a boundary,switch off and switch off.cant save anyone else.it is words on a screen with real life elsewhere

i would just like to ask the OP

leaving aside you or him,

are you willing to damage your daughter?

are you willing for her to despise you in later life?

are you willing for her to move out and never contact you again?

are you willing to be as understanding when she chooses an abusive partner?

this is a reality. please think about this, i have had no contact with my mother for years and i blame her fully for my childhood. not her abusive partner - the minute i got old enough to understand that she CHOSE to put me through that i lost any feelings i had towards her.
is this man worth it? will he be worth in in 30 years time when you are wondering if you have grandkids?

why are you even considering this? why have you posted this thread?

"JustCause I'm going now. I'm sick of the attacks. To the posters who have written eloquently and with genuine empathy and concern for DD's wellbeing, thank you. It gave me a much-needed kick up the arse.

To those who have no idea how this feels and just fancied weighing in with their judgey tuppence, I hope to god you never have to go through this, or any of your loved ones."

You know, casting MN as the Bad Guys in all this says it all.. You know you are wrong so you make MN more wrong, so you are right.

And that makes staying with him okay.

Stop it. No one on here gives a shit, we are all strangers. Our advice is neutral, so strangely, you can trust it.

So in a weird way, it's the best advice you'll ever get.

You are searching for excuses to stay with a man that will (not may, will) end up hurting gyou and your daughter. Stop. Get out.

That's all. Stop. Get out.

gosh sparkle ive just read some pages back (i hadnt gone through the whole thread) seems you and i came to the same conclusion with regards our mothers.

my mothers partner physically abused me and cause me to have a nervous breakdown at age 11. As for the OP i have no comprehension of why anyone with children would do this to them. it is just so sad that it continues to affect innocents with no say in any of it. i think it is one thing to risk yourself, another entirely to risk your children.

Anyfucker...you did really well dear...hope you got some sleep. x

thanks flight, perspective regained here

cannot fail to, have to be at work in an hour, RL takes no prisoners !!

I think the OP is feeding off all the (well intentioned and incredibly well thought out) posts on this thread - I really don't think this is trollery, but it is reinforcing her sense of destiny and "me and him against the world".

This is not an episode of EastEnders. If you carry on down this path, OP, at best you risk a broken nose, an even more damaged ego and being back where you are now in 6 months time. At worst your daughter may be in care and you may be dead. Or she could be dead. Do you really think a man like that wouldn't hesitate to hit an "uppity" daughter? He would do it, she just isn't old enough to have turned into enough of a woman to press his buttons. But she will.

To a large degree I agree with both AnyFucker and dittany, even though they have different views IFKWIM.

What I have decided is that we are all wasting our time, as the OP is obviously not yet ready to help herself and her DD sadly.

What I do hope, is that even if the OP doesn't take any of the advice, someone else who is in this situation will read this and be able to use it to help her get out.

(p.s. AF - go to work before your head explodes )

The thing about people like him is that they are constantly trying to find out just how much they can get away with. It's as though they missed out on a whole phase of boundary defining in childhood. If you take him back after this many months, it will take at least as many months next time, and probably an escalation of violence and a lot more time, to get rid of him again. He will continue to redefine the boundaries to suit him. If you are his fallback position, and will take any amount of bad behaviour from him, that's precisely what you will get.

As other posters have also said, I fear my father and his temper, but I feel more angry towards my mother for not protecting us from him, and for being weak and self-interested to the point of preferring staying with him rather than cutting loose and not being supported by her family (although frankly I can see why she wouldn't feel supported by them emotionally).

Two of my three sisters have ended up in abusive relationships. Both left their exes with the full support of our mother, who is very proud of them for having the courage to do what she couldn't. For that I love her, and our relationship has improved a lot in the last 10 years. One sister however has ended up in another borderline emotionally abusive relationship, another gets by by simply going along with everything her husband wants to do, and a third one (the one with the seriously lunatic ex) is single and intends to remain so unless she meets a good man who makes her happy.

You have to have the courage to be content to be alone. If you can stop being desperate to be in a relationship, you will not be so likely to end up shacked up with a twat. Twats like him exploit desperation. Eventually you may well meet a good and kind man. Don't just settle for the first man that asks you! Particularly not an abusive bastard like him.

As another one who's escaped from a violent relationship, I agree with the majority view on here. If you still love him, give him tough love - he has to prove that he has really changed, over a long period, before you'd even consider having him back.
Just because he's agreed to go on a course, or has even started it, is not enough.

And you are benefitting from the courage of the OW in calling the police, as your partner has now had that wake-up call. I hope you'll carry on the good work, and call them again if he hits you.

good luck.

duchesse, you are so right about trying to find out how much they can get away with. It's second nature to them.

change is only initiated when one feels compulsion to do so.obviously op has not got the compulsion to do so

and yes some emapthic and good posts but,if op isnt unable to hear the message she wont act

on other hand,the posts written are empathic and raw and may be of support to someone else

and adds to the no one understands me like 'im- we have history pathology

Good post sparklefrog and thank you glastocat (a few pages back now) for answering my question about what age you were when your mum split up from your dad. I'm not surprised this stuff still plays on your minds.

I know my dd may turn round one day and say why did you leave my Dad?!!! and blame me for bringing the family up as a single family, but that accusation that will no doubt be made from the position of confidence and contentment and 'grass is greener' is so infinitely preferable to the alternative... spelled out so clearly by sparklefrog.

Op says that the x comes round, so she has her own house and isn't financially dependent on him. I hate that i stayed with my x for as long as i did, but he controlled everything, the money, i had no family nearby etc.... The OP has her own place, she could just get a new sim card, disconnect the landline, change the locks.....

ps, for anybody who thinks that nobody ever listens on these threads, it's not true, so don't give up posting in these situations.

in april 2007 i started a thread where i admitted that i felt nothing but fear for my x, i had no control over my life as my x made every decision, i had no money,no job, but i couldn't face leaving and this was the bed i'd made and i had to lie in it...

well, it didn't happen overnight, but..... the kindness and support and advice of total strangers DID give me the confidence to leave. i left with nothing, and was attacked as we walked out the door..

maggie, thanks for that

kitty, its interesting that you agreed with both dittany and I

you see, I also agree with dittany except what I was throwing into the mix is ...

is it so impossible that this particular woman is just a fucking awful person too ?

there are some awful women out there and some of them are born, not made

we don't know do we ? She certainly hasn't convinced me she is totally at the mercy of an abuser, because I don't think she is

but then, how can we possibly understand the complexities of a relationship in a few sentences, so we would do better not to try, tbh

< checks head is still in one piece >

please think of your dd and don't get involved with him again. you seem to have managed without him. maybe you are confusing infatuation with love, but if it was me, i would give him a wide berth.

OP, the courts and police take this man seriously. SS take this man seriously. They do not put children on the at risk register lightly. It's not just a matter of checking a list of children and bang there she is on the register. There are protocols that are based on sad and tragic experience involving situations like yours that have prompted the steps that have been taken by SS. Real things have happened to real children. Things that cannot be undone or wished away. The next steps are huge and consequential for her and for you. You stand to lose her.

The issue of boundaries is huge here. On the one hand, this man clearly has no respect for anyone or any institution, and is playing you and the system as hard as he can. It takes two to establish boundaries (not blaming a victim here, because you don't deserve to be run over, tank-wise, by this man, OP). My point is that you can't depend on him to come to his senses and do what is necessary for a healthy relationship -- you must be prepared to take a long cold look at things and see what all the agencies, social services and police are seeing in this man. You must be ready to dump your misplaced pride and the malignant optimism that keeps you hoping he will change, and flattered by his attention to you, and the idea that you can somehow save this relationship. You have to become active rather than passive here.

Easier said than done, when you have a lifetime of thoughts and experiences inside you that got you to this point. And there is fear too, fear of the unknown future and fear of not having a man (which means affirmation as an attractive woman), fear of being lonely and not having an emotional project to work on (silly when you have a DD, but real nonetheless), but the ups and downs and the challenge of dealing with someone like this beckon someone with low self esteem because she can sometimes experience the reward of the 'good times'; the few and far between occasions when things are good feed your own ego needs too, OP, because you think you're getting somewhere just often enough you feel you're truly needed that it makes your effort seem worthwhile.

But in the meantime the person who really needs you is sitting helplessly watching the trainwreck and learning everything she will carry with her into her own life and relationships... watched by SS, but otherwise unprotected and without any filter to enable her to sort out what's healthy and what's poisonous.

You don't need his permission to end it or to stop hoping it will get better. You are not responsible for his feelings, his tears, or what he might do without you. Turning on the waterworks and playing the poor frightened, lonely baby in need of rescue is an effort to manipulate you into feeling sorry for him; keeping you focused on him is all he wants. He does this to keep you from focusing on your own welfare and that of your DD -- he is sharp enough to know this is where it should be, and he is putting on a pathetic performance to distract you.

It is horrible facing the possibility of not being loved by anyone at all...I'm there right now, there isn't anyone in the world except possibly my dad, who actually loves me - and the kids of course, but they can't help it - and yes it hurts sometimes and is lonely sometimes.

But I would never, never ever swap being here for being 'loved' by an abusive man. Anything is better than that.

I chose this path, chose (with support) to ditch the bastard I was with - who was no wya as bad as this one, by the sound of it - in order to be free of fear, and free of feeling like I was treading on eggshells.

Tbh it was flattering when he came round desperate to get abck together, full of empty little soundbites and unsubstantiated promises to change, if I would only 'trust him a tiny bit' - I even considered calling his bluff (though my feelings had long gone by now - zero respect for someone like that, and no respect makes love nigh on impossible) and saying 'come on then, ask me to marry you, and I might consider it' - I wondered if indeed i would be won over and having that sort of control would be alright in a weird kind of way. He was basically saying anything I wanted to hear.

But of course morally that wouldn't have been great, I couldn't stand to be near him or touched by him any more, and the posturing was all a farce. Anyone could see he didn't mean a word of it - his mum had sent him round I think.

I blew him off and never saw him again. They don't like women with boundaries, they only go for the type they know they can bully or manipulate. If you laugh them off, they go and find someone else to target.

It's amazing what a bit of confidence can achieve, and what it shows up when you shine that ultra violet ray on their promises and they vanish into thin air.

But I needed support and got it, I needed someone's permission to leave him, and Thank God I got that too...I was failing otherwise, in my own mind. I needed someone to tell me they needed/wanted me to ditch him, first. Once they had done so it was easy.

Maybe OP feels like she would be failing somehow if she gave up on the relationship.

err, flight, I love you

Hello - I am new to mumsnet, so my apologies if I am offending/annoying anyone in posting this, or I am saying it in the wrong place.

Dittany - I clicked on the link you posted to the Lundy Bancroft book on Amazon. This looks like an excellent book and judging from people's comments it seems to have helped a lot of people.

I just wanted to warn people who might post the same link in future on other threads: when I next visited the Amazon website, it clearly displayed the book as having been the last thing to be viewed. This was at the top of the page under the heading 'more items to consider', next to a load of other suggested books relating to domestic abuse. I wasn't even logged in to Amazon either time.

Fortunately for me, this isn't a problem (OP - please please please listen to the excellent advice that has been given on this thread). However, it occurred to me that if someone is in an abusive relationship, having the fact that they have been browsing this sort of book on Amazon stored by their computer might actually be quite dangerous. Like I said, I think it was a really helpful link, but people need to be aware before clicking on it, that if it isn't safe, they should take care to clear their history or something after looking at it.

Anyfucker have you read Prone To Violence?. It was written by Erin Pizzey who started up one of the first women's refuges in England. In it she looks at the reasons why some women keep entering into violent relationships. It's not the easiest of reading.

I used to know a woman who had a series of messed up and sometimes violent relationships. She used to come round my flat after her current bloke had buggered off after another screaming match or fight. She once told me that she couldn't manage a "normal" relationship as she never knew where she stood and it was too boring. If someone was shouting at her then she thought that at least he was paying attention to her and showing his true feelings. When a bloke was being nice to her and treating her well she always thought he was up to something and just didn't trust him so she'd provoke an argument. I saw her do just that more than once .

I'm sure it was something in her past that made her act like that but it was heart-breaking to watch. The nice men she met got fed up and walked away but the real bastards stuck around for ages. She couldn't stand to be on her own, even for a little bit. I lost touch with her years ago when she moved away but I often wonder what happened to her and if she ever got the help she so obviously needed.