AIBU To think that if you are not on a doner register you should give up any rights to a donated organ?

[littlemoominmamma]

Do you think this would be a reasonable idea? If you have an organ donation card you should be entitled to an organ.... if not then that is your choice?

Its a good point arabica, but in the meantime there are people dying daily for lack of donor organs whilst the stem cell technology is being explored.

Yes, that is probably the future, but what should be done in the meantime. Just because it is not at the forefront of most peoples minds doesn't mean to say doing nothing is a legitimate option.
After all, we all need to save for pensions and that is definitely not at the front of my mind but I recognise one still has to consider it.

If you need a donor organ you are highly unlikely to be able to donate your own.

Have just registered as it's something I have wanted to do for a while, but every time I think about it I get put off because I don't like having to think about my untimely death. It's silly really, but I think it's what puts off a lot of people. It's almost like admitting to yourself that you could die suddenly and unexpectedly.
Well it's done now. I'll tell DH when he gets home from work and then I can put it to the back of my mind.

As an aside, I'm not allowed to give blood because I'm too small. Hopefully that isn't an issue with organs.

YANBU in principle, but it is unworkable. I think I think that if you refuse to go on the organ donor register and do not have a valid medical reason, then why should you expect to benefit from the whole system? I'm going to get very 'Grumpy Old Woman' now, but a big part of what's wrong with society is that people know they can take and take and are hardly ever forced to give anything back. People regularly take the piss with the NHS, and that is the reason it struggles so much.

I'm on the register. When people say, 'Oh, I don't feel comfortable with them using my organs, and eyes especially, ew' I do think, oh for fuck's sake grow up. Someone else's life is far more important than your mild feelings of mental discomfort at the 'icky' idea of having your organs removed. You'll be DEAD. You won't care. It really makes me angry, and I don't even know anyone who ever needed a transplant.

arabicabean - "If you are healthy and young you tend not to focus on your own mortality. You are busy living and not expecting to die just yet."

Well you should think about it. Not to a morbid degree obviously, but you are an adult, you know you're going to die at some point - take responsibility. Same goes for people who won't make a will because they're superstitious about dying young, and then they DO die young and everyone else has to deal with the consequences.

YANBU - It is not like blood, which may have to be given in an emergency situation.

You have to wait for an organ to become available. So you should sign up to be an organ donor yourself (it's not like you'll need the organs after you die so why not?)

People who drink don't get new livers.
People who smoke don't get new lungs.

Why is this different? If you want someone to give you their organ you should be prepared to give back.

misdee, is your DH on the donor register now?

When he was told he needed a transplant, if the doc had said 'you need a new heart, but you must sign up to the donor register to get one' wouldn't he have done it?

And been happy to?

YABU. The idea of only allowing people on the donor register to receive organs has a superficial symmetry to it but it's no more than that.

Donor organs should be allocated on the basis of need and likely outcome- any sort of test about whether you're the "right sort of person" is abhorrent. Only allowing organs to those on the register is the first step onto a very slippery slope.

This is such an interesting thread but I want to add a small but important point which seems to have been overlooked. It is Not the Case that people with serious illnesses can never, themselves, become organ donors. They can often still donate tissues - skin, bone, tendons, corneas, heart valves (sorry if TMI).

So, it is worth signing up to the Organ Donor Register, even if you think you're poor old body is too sick to be of any use to anyone. There are very few illnesses that prevent donation, and the medical staff concerned take a full medical history to check a potential donor's suitability.

I'm on the Register, and, quite frankly, am considering leaving my body to science (perhaps with appropriate tattoos - "here's the liver - one not very careful owner") .

The body is just an envelope after all. And, in case anyone is interested, I spoke to a medical student recently and she said every cadavar they use for dissection is given a proper burial, which the family concerned are invited to attend. I don't mean to upset anyone by being so frank and apologise if TMI but I am thinking of the three people who die every day because a suitable organ can't be found.

Olderandwider, have you read this www.amazon.co.uk/Stiff-Curious-Lives-Human-Cadavers/dp/0141007451/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books& qid=1259949332&sr=8-1 ? Fascinating book about all the uses human cadavers are put to.

The OP's suggestion is unworkable because if you found that you needed a transplant you'd sign up straight away and hey presto you're on the list again.

I'm not into the opt out either because then it infers that the state owns you and you and your relatives have no say in the way your property is disposed of, albeit a different kind of property.

Those in the know, does a bit of paper really make the difference if the family refuse permission? Or what about in the case of power of attourney, who then decides?

Personally I think one should discuss the issue with your next of kin so there is no doubt left in the minds of those who will be there after you're dead. If then it is over-ridden there is a moral point made.

And doctors should ask more frequently - there are as many stories of families who were never asked and didn't know how to offer or felt that as they weren't asked it wasn't wanted, as there are of those refusing permission.

Littleangelic - the consent of the next of kin is always sought and if they refuse, the fact that someone carried a card/was on the register is irrelevant, which I think is one of the key issues than an 'opt out'system would start to address.

No! Due to my job I cant donate my organs - but I would if I could.

knownowt - not read it but it looks interesting, sort of thing DS would enjoy .

YABU because as many people have said if you need a transplant you are probably not in a fit state to donate. My DH is a haemophiliac who was infected with Hep C at the age of 8 (as far as we know). He may need a liver transplant at some point but can never go on the register because nobody can use hep C riddled organs - particularly not if there turns out to be CJD as well....

Of course, if a transplant depended on it, he would sign up and hope that these various conditions were borne in mind before the organ was ever used but I think it works a bit on the blood donation procedure that it is 'self-screening' to an extent i.e. you don't donate if you can't.

However, OP YAabsolutelyNBU to raise awareness of it. I and my family all carry donor cards and I don't think family should be allowed to override the personal decision to donate. I would also (obviously) prefer an opt in.

TrollyDolly - just curious, but what job means you can't donate?

Any peeps really interested in who can/can't donate - basically, if you have HIV or vCJD you can't, anyone else, it's possible. Even chronic diseases such as diabetes, heart disease etc may still allow you to donate different tissues.

For those interested: www.organdonation.nhs.uk/ukt/how_to_become_a_donor/questions/answers/answers_7.jsp#q19

OH has donated his body to MS research when he dies.

Arabica - I'm assuming you weren't on MN when Peter had his transplant? That's all it tookk for me to think about my own mortality, and get myself on the register. I'm 27, young and healthy (ish) and think that if I died prematurely then at least someone could benefit from it.

Not only are me and dh on the register but so are ds and dd. I know it's an awful thought, but if your baby was dying for need of a transplant you'd wish more people signed their kids up wouldn't you?

I think people who aren't on the donor register are selfish (excluding those who have genuine reasons) and blinkered. It's ok to take but not to give?

I'd join any campaign for an 'opt out' system and would also like to see the onus taken away from relatives at a time of their greatest sorrow to take such a decision.
Anyone who feels strongly about it will have the opportunity to decline (should they then lose the right to receive an organ? Personally, I think not).
My BIL has been on the transplant list for years, he was called in last year and sent home. I'd do anything to help.
SIL gave other BIL a kidney after his failed last year so he never had to wait for a transplant.
DH has had his kidney for 25 yrs but I am well aware it could go at any time.
Please register today and tell your families of your intentions!

'if you found that you needed a transplant you'd sign up straight away and hey presto you're on the list again.'

Exactly, that's a good thing. That's what makes it workable, not unworkable, IMO.

If you can't donate your organs then obviously you would be exempt, but someone who can donate should sign the register before they receive an organ.

My DN has cystic fibrosis. One day she'll need a new heart and lungs. If she said I'll have the heart and lungs but nobody's getting any of my organs when I die I'd be very .

Is there a good reason why someone on the transplant list would refuse to sign the register? I can't think of one.

I don't agree with an opt-out system, either. It has to be the person's choice.

I've got no problem with the morality or theory of an opt-out, because I think that if you feel that strongly about not donating then you surely would have made the effort to opt-out? I just registered online (I've got a card in my purse but I'm not sure what the status of it is) and it took me literally one minute.

Having said that, I'm sure I read recently that in some countries that operate the opt-out system the number of organs available hasn't actually increased as was expected? Possibly because those people who claim they would donate but have "never got round" to registering would actually decide to opt-out? If anyone can clarify that point, it would be useful.

Surely anything that makes it easier for relatives to know your wishes at a difficult time is a good thing. I lost a little boy at birth, and the paperwork required just for us to consent to a postmortem was a nightmare, apparently due to the Alder Hey scandal.

Sassybeast - I don't think that's true. Logically it doesn't make sense - presumed consent isn't as strong as explicit consent, where someone has actively made the decision to put their name on the register, so if family wishes can override the latter I see no reason why they shouldn't override the former.

One of the main problems with donation just now is the family refusing consent, regardless of whether the person was on the register or not. Spain has the highest organ donation rate in the world, and whilst it does operate a presumed consent system, its success is thought to be mostly due to its highly effective transplant co-ordination services in every hospital, which - among other things - offer proper information and support to grieving families.

while I'd love to see more people opting in - I don't think an "opt out" system is the way to go.

Going on the list should (imo) be an informed choice, and of course opting out should be an informed choice. But I would be concerned about large swathes (mostly of vulnerable people) who wouldn't be aware of their right to opt-out.

what I DO think needs to change is the right of the family to override someones decision to be on the list.

If I die - I don't want my nearest and dearest in their time of grief to be given the choice - I've already made it, and carry the card etc to show that I've made the choice.

As hard as it would be for the families I don't think that they should be able to over-ride the decision previously made by the deceased.

OP YABU for many of the reasons listed here already.

However, I think those of you objecting to the opt-out system are being MORE unreasonable - if you are so against organ donation, then the point is that you can CHOOSE to opt out and then your precious bod can't be touched! If you are too lazy/apathetic/blinkered to get around to it, well that's your look out - but if you feel that strongly about it, you'll do it.
I also feel quite pissed off that relatives of registered organ donors can over-ride their wishes - how disrespectful. And if you are going to be all precious about it being YOUR bod, then it should be up to YOU how it is dealt with, not your relatives who feel a bit icky about it (yet you STILL have the CHOICE to opt out if the presumed consent situation were to be brought in)

It would probably be a good idea to teach a class about it in schools when children are of an appropriate age - 12, maybe? - and then hand round forms (if we introduce the opt-out system, then they could be forms to let people opt out there and then; if we're still on our voluntary basis, then they could be forms to sign up to the register) for all the children to fill in.

I am now in Australia where I can not give blood and presumably cannot donate organs, purely because I have lived in the UK for years and am therefore at risk of being contaminated with CJD , which apparently is now thought to have an incubation time of up to 50y so I will never be able to donate here. Only in the UK. I worked for the UK blood transfusion service for 5 years and used to check at the end of every week how much of my blood group was in stock - being rare-ish, usually v. little, so I made sure I donated when I could.

It is an interesting point. And one I had not thought of. I can see arguments for and against.

By the same token, should we allow people to receive emergency blood transfusions if they are not blood donors?

Interestingly when I lived in Saudi they had a law that said when you went into hospital for an operation a member of your family thad to donate a pint of blood to the hospital blood bank.

So when I had my C-Section my husband had to do his bit.

I didnt need any blood but I think it is a great rule -- it can be anybody in your family.

I think that is a fabulous idea.