...to think my in laws are a bit loopy?

[mamaduckbone]

OK, I would never normally post here but I genuinely would value some opinions on this - not that it'll change anything, but it would be interesting to have outside perspective to add to mine and dh's perpetual debate on the oddness of his father.

My in-laws, we've recently found out, have over £500 000 in savings. This doesn't include their house or pensions. They are semi retired and live a fairly frugal life, through choice - no exotic holidays or expensive hobbies.

So, they are just sitting on this big pot of money doing nothing with it.

Dh and I are doing OK, and I'm in no way spinning a sob story as I know we're a lot better off than a lot of people, but things are a bit of a struggle. We have 2 dcs in a 2 bedroom terrace house, I'm going to have to go back to work for more days than I'd like to after maternity leave (possibly full time) as I'm the higher earner, and dh has worked really hard going to college for the past 2 years to retrain as he hates his job, but may well be in a position where he can't afford to take the plunge into his new chosen career because it will mean a drop in salary.

So, AIBU to think that the inlaws could help us out a bit? Apparently MIL would like to but FIL thinks it's his money that he's worked hard for and he shouldn't be expected to give it away. I do see his point, although I do think things were different when they started out. However, what really pisses me off is that he's not enjoying it, he's just sitting on it, and if they aren't going to bloody spend it what's the point? We'll inherit one day anyway, but won't need it so much then.

My family are not well off, but if my mum could give us anything to help get where we want to be (a slightly bigger house with a garden bigger than a postage stamp for 2 energetic boys and dh in a position to be able to start his own business) then she would, and that would give her pleasure.

Everyone I know who has a decent sized house, can afford to be a SAHM, isn't counting every penny, had a helping hand at some point.

So go on, hit me with it - AIBU or are the in laws weird for wanting to hoard their pot of gold?

The OP is saying she is 'struggling' because she doesn't live in a big house and has to go back to work after maternity leave. I know plenty of people in that situation who do not resort to familial emotional blackmail to get by. Why change career if you can't afford it? Why not use the example set and save up so they could afford to follow their dreams and not the mortgage rate?

I think you should forget you know the money exists. It isn't yours. It has nothing to do with you. You simply cannot expect or even hope that they will offer you a chunk of their life savings to make your life more comfortable.

And to be honest, living in a 2 bed house with 2 kids and having to return to work for more days than you like isn't hardship, no.

TimTam- I can't see anything wrong with accepting a gift form your PIL in they want to help you with, for example, putting down a deposit on a house. I think it is great to want to be independent and not to take things for granted but they obviously want to help you. A lot of people do rely on family members financially (eg childcare) and I can't see anything wrong with that as long as the arrangement is a happy one for everyone.

YANBU - I'm with you, if you were my kids then I'd want to help you out. I wouldn't necessarily give you ALL my cash, but I'd want to help.

I don't think the OP is being unreasonable at all - £500k is a lot of money & if it were me then I would like (not expect) my ILs to help us out a bit.

littleangelicrose typical mumsnet "plenty of people are in your position or worse" response.

I continue to be suprised by the responses to this thread - will those of you who have so aggressively attacked the OP for questioning the position be so steadfast in your refusal to help your own children should the time come?

I just cannot imagine not doing whatever I could to help my children. Jeez I'd starve for them - emptying my bank account would be easy!

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread so don't know if this point had been covered as it is slightly different from the first and last page comments

You need to be careful that this does not become a thing between you and the inlaws. I know from experience how discussing/assuming what you will inherit can cause major problems with relatinships.

One eg is my neighbours, a man in his 70's (some of you may rmemeber his musical talents ), his daughter has asked one more than one occassion for an advance on her inheritence , I know this is not what you are doing but you can imaigne how this has made him feel.

edam, not sure you understand the tax laws - or know the details of the in-laws will!

OP - i know what you mean as my ILs don't give us any help, either, even though I think they probably can. they have also told us not to expect to inherit, either, as they plan to enjoy the money rather than sit on it. Ironically, my mum gives us what she can afford, now, but years ago when she had a lot more, she didn't give us a penny!

Hmmm. Well, I know what you mean. If I had that much money and knew family members would benefit from having some of it, I'd give them it. However, not everyone thinks like that. A lot of people with a decent amount of savings accumulate that money by being tightfisted.

So basically, YANBU for thinking 'I'd be different if it was my money', but YABU for thinking that they should give you any of theirs. It's just a shame that some people aren't generous.

This thread really is making me think that it's the best policy to tell children that they are not going to inherit a penny because we plan to leave our money to charity

We might surprise them

Or we might not

I think some posters have not read this comment from the OP:

By mamaduckbone Wed 02-Dec-09 20:48:01
Is MIL didn't sit looking at the property pages of the local paper showing us houses that we can't afford every time they visit I could probably suck it up a little more comfortably too, and if FIL didn't sit in my living room saying "so, explain it to me then, why exactly can't you move house?" that would be even better.

YANBU at all. If your PIL are going to make comments about how you should be living in a bigger house then it is perfectly reasonable to wonder whether they will help to finance the lifestyle they seem to expect for you.

The thing is they probably expect that houses cost 3 times DH's single income, like they did in 1970. I know mine think that because we go on holiday once a year that is the only reason we can't afford a 5 bed detached in a leafy lane

I've been avoiding coming back on here because the nastiness was starting to upset me a bit (as well as having RL things to do ) but I see the debate has become a little more balanced in my absence.

I think you're right Milly - I'm pretty sure they don't understand that it's impossible for us to move house in our current circumstances (or maybe they do now, since I was a little abrupt with MIL last time they mentioned it )

Apparently (according to SIL) FIL was horrified that we should even think about having a second child living where we are, but it was either that or ds would be an only child, or have a huge gap between siblings. For us, completing our family was more important, and as many people have pointed out, we are fine and plenty are far worse off. I suppose it is the slight sniffiness about our personal circumstances but unwillingness to help us change them that grates a bit.

Just to clarify to posters who have commented on dh retraining...before I started maternity leave to have ds2 he was primary carer for ds1, working part time and at college in the evening, whilst I worked full time. Now I am at home, he is working full time (in the job he wants to get out of since it is poorly paid with long hours and he hates it), he goes to college 2 nights a week and spends his days off studying. So we are trying to change our own situation, not sitting on our backsides expecting someone else to do it for us.

This whole debate has actually made me question whether I would want any of PIL's cash even if they were to offer it now, since I would hate more than anything to be thought of as a scrounger, and thus far everything we've achieved has been on our own terms and without help.

It's interesting how many people don't see £500 grand as a lot of money too...what different worlds we must inhabit...

I can see why you are thinking like this but I am a bit torn as to whether you are being U or not.

I am probably a little odd but I have been thinking about being in your MIL/FIL's situation recently and our son is only little! My husband is a high earner, I work too, we have one son (at state school) and live well within our means (share one small car, have a relatively modest house etc) so I can see us having a very similar finanicial situation to your IL's in a few years.

We do intend to help our son onto the housing market but a big concern of mine would be my son getting married and then divorced in quick succession and the money we have worked so hard for not staying with him (I possibly think this because I was married and divorced in my twenties!). I haven't really looked into this yet, but it may be a similar concern for your IL's whether it has any real grounding or not. I also wouldn't part with one penny until it has been clearly displayed that he had a solid work ethic and a sensible approach to money.

I would also be concerned about making things 'too easy'. I don't mean that to sound as horrid as it probably does. My husband and I have had periods of unemployment and much lower incomes and I think that was a good thing for our longterm financial security. We don't have parents in the finanical situation that could help so there was no option to make it through.

If we had been given £100K six years ago, when I was pg and my husband was unemployed I wonder if I would have returned to work? Possibly not. I did though and I 'kept my hand in' and I am so glad I did, mainly because I think I would have lost the confidence to return after a longer break (I am a teacher). I will continue working now (happily), even though we could easily afford for me to be a SAHM, until I retire earning in total way more than £100K and helping to give us real longterm financial security.

Anyway, I am sorry about the waffling on. I was just trying to share a few things that may or may not be going through your FIL's mind in addition to some of the things already mentioned (cost of care homes etc).

My concern with the children and indeed my own in laws pot of gold is that basically if they don't give it to us whilst they are alive it will disappear in nursing home fee's etc etc.

Those who say inheritance is not a given and they are going to blow the lot, well inheritance how 1% of the population own 70% of the land in this country, passing it down through families.
Unless we can give our children a bit of a start and the financial education to make sure they don't blow it all then the rich will get richer and the poor poorer.

my granps did this. they died with 200k in the bank despite having 3 years of additional care (plus house etc).
they didn't go on the holidays they wanted out of a habit of miserliness. they didn't help my folks out when my dad was unemployed. daft really - i think it was my grandad that was doing it.

some more help back then would have been greatly better than the cash when they died.

it would have been nice for my gran to go to egypt like she wanted too.

Spectroscopy - £100k is way, way more than the amount I had in mind when thinking it would be nice if they helped us out...I agree, that much could make you inclined to rest on your laurels. If, for example, the PIL did help us with buying a larger house, we would still need to work in exactly the same way as we do now, and they would replace the money in their savings with interest within a couple of years.

As for divorcing - we've been happily married for 7 years and are in our mid thirties, but you're right, there's no guarantee!

OMG!!!

I could have written this post myself so can really empathise.....

My parents are a)very skint b)ridiculously generous with whatever they have c) happy and d) think that as parents you always want what's best for your children and if possible, better than you had yourself. This attitude has totally formed how they parented my brother and I, and I find myself being the same with my DS. I was the first person in my entire extended family to go to university back in the early 90's, and my parents were really proud (very working-class war babies, no room in life for education as it was what posh people did according to my GPs), but also pointed out that that's what you want for your children - to reach their potential however they best can.

DP's parents are a)relatively affluent and have a good couple of hundred grand in the bank b)ULTRA-tight with money, eating the cheapest most processed food etc, c) very miserable most of the time - they get very little pleasure out of life and d) think that if they coped with hardship in any way, then that's how their children should experience life without any aspirations of happiness whatsoever eg: "if it was good enough in our day etc...."

For what it's worth both my parents have chronic ill-health, my father terminally so, BUT they are a million times happier than my in-laws and make the most out of every minute of life, despite being skint. ILs are as fit as oxen and think if they sneeze they must have terminal swine-flu, MIL is agrophobic etc......I could go on.

I know it sounds trite but if you're a glass half full person then you just have to think, "oh sod it, you might be sitting on a pot of cash, and we might be skint but keep your money, I'd rather be happy!" So YABU, but also i know YANBU at the same time........

nowt like sitting on the fence, sorry!

YANBU at all. Especially because you can tell from your original post that you're not in any way demanding it, or feeling entitled to it, but just, perhaps a little hurt that they're not being overtly generous to you.

I have experienced nothing but generosity from my skint parents and skint parents in law - and in years to come that is certainly how I'll treat my own children.

I do understand everyone else saying that YABU but I would feel totally the same as you in the same situation ! I guess the challenge for you now is how you respond to them - whether this is an issue that causes bitterness and division or whether you're able to get over it somehow.

thing is, at what point is it really that someone needs financial help and at what point does it become about wanting financial help to change your life but not really needing it?

E.g. my dh earns a good salary and I can afford to be a sahm, and we have had no financial help from anyone. But the downside is that my dh has a two hour commute each way every day. So, in an ideal world, it would be great to move to London so he didn't have such a long commute. But in the real world we can't afford to do that. So would it be reasonable to expect financial help from parents even though we're not in a financially struggling position? After all that financial help would enhance our lives, even though we're actually relatively well off.

I think that peoples' money is for them to do with as they choose. But I also think there's a difference between struggling financially, ie not being able to afford new clothes/food/heating/to pay the bills, and wanting to be better off financially ie moving to a bigger house you can't afford and thinking that if someone in the family has the money they should "help" out their children.

I think the problem is that this is really the first generation where parents have had money to help out their adult children, and somehow the adult children have started to feel a sense of entitlement towards that money.

I don't think that having children makes you financially responsible for them for the rest of their lives.

I don't think you are being entirely unreasonable.

I believe that families help each other out. If my mum and dad had £500k (which is a bloody fortune btw) and said they were keeping it to be sure of good care when / if they got ill, I'd be pleased they had enough to feel safe and secure.
But on the other hand I'd welcome a discussion about how maybe helping us out now would mean we could get a bigger place so that in the future we could have one/both of them living with us if they needed it.

Or that helping us out now would mean that in 10 years time we were more comfortable and less stressed/ working so hard so we had time and energy to care for them.

tbh though if they had £500k plus their house then I feel a bit if they hadn't helped out with a £5k deposit on house type thing.

"I think the problem is that this is really the first generation where parents have had money to help out their adult children, and somehow the adult children have started to feel a sense of entitlement towards that money."

Yes that is true in most cases, however what is also true is that they are in this position at the expense of their adult children, people seem to think that when they are paid a pensions/use the health services etc the funding for that is what they paid into the pot which is ridiculous.
It's long been spent at the time they paid it, so all these pension credits, interest on their savings accounts, house price rises are being paid by this working generation who now need the help because the expectations of the "baby boomers" is so high.

The irony is if the government decides to inflate away the current debt, of which their is plenty, the likes of the OP's PIL will be left high and dry.

mamaduckbone Sun 06-Dec-09 13:06:16

"It's interesting how many people don't see £500 grand as a lot of money too...what different worlds we must inhabit..."

This is not because I am rolling in it, but because I have been horrified to see how much it is costing my MIL to get the nursing care she needs (the NHS is refusing to pay for more than a fraction). I had no idea all her money would be swallowed up like this. I just cannot imagine a situation where a young and healthy person such as me would need money in the same way as somebody like her. So I am very very grateful that she did not tie it up in a more comfortable lifestyle for us- we couldn't have helped her now.

If my MIL had not kept the money to buy herself insurance for nursing fees, she would not be able to live in a nursing home which can cater for her complex medical needs, as the NHS only fund up to a certain level. And the hospital were desperate to kick her out, asking her every day when she was leaving.

It's not necessarily the case that if you spend all your money now, you can then live the life of riley on tax payers' money. Many cheaper nursing homes are substandard, and if you need a lot of help, it can be difficult to get a place at all.

I take your point Cory but personally I would literally rather die than watch everything I'd worked for go down the drain on nursing home fee's, by the time I have complex medical needs I would like to think I could pop over to switzerland for a day trip. I just don't see the point of prolonging the envitable.