To want my ds to have a cosmetic operation against his will?

[trice]

My lovely ds has a birthmark on his chin which is about the size of a satsuma and sticks out. He is eight now and has had it since he was born.

I took him to the gp today and asked her to refer him to a plastic surgeon as I wanted to hear the options for getting it removed/reduced. We were told that he couldn't have it operated on when he was a baby as it would go away on its own. It hasn't.

I love my ds and have always told him that he was beautiful and that his birthmark makes him unique. It is however the first thing other children notice about him and although they rarely say anything unpleasant about it I fear that it is only a matter of time.

Anyway the gp refused to refer him because he told her that he didn't want it taken away because it made him special. She said that she didn't want to make ds do anything he didn't want to do.

She made me feel like a very bad mummy who was trying to force her child into surgery just to make him prettier.

I, on the other hand, am constantly making ds do things he doesn't want to do; like getting out of bed, eating vegetables, going to school and saying his four times table. So I was not putting a lot of store into what ds says about not wanting a scary operation before we have spoken to a surgeon and have the full facts.

I think she should have referred him and let us, as parents, make the decision in the best interest of ds. AIBU?

Louby. When i was younger the operations were sometimes scary but I had a fantastic surgeon who did every single operation and is now in fact a professor.

One thing my mum and surgeon did was show me pictures after each operation and the difference it was making. This boosted me along even knowing that the following year I would have to have another one.

Obviously things are different nowdays and a cleft is repaired much quicker but if your daughter was to ever resent you for putting her through surgery then maybe you could ask her surgeon to show her the progress she is making.
Just a idea it made the world of difference to me.

Out of curiosity is it Professor Saunders at Mount Vernon. Long shot I know lol

Oh, Trice - sorry you have had a bad time, but starting a thread about something so sensitive in the bear pit that is AIBU, and giving it a title that makes it sound as if you will ondeed drag your protesting child into the anaesthetic room was a bit MN-risky!

My DS has a leg that is much shorter than the other. He had a very big shoe raise, and basically, because an increasing discrepancy would lead to severe problems in his pelvis and spine in later life we had to decide whether he would have a prosthetic leg, or bone-lengthening surgery. He was 6 when the decision to go ahead with surgyer began, and it is a long (9 months) painful procedure. I think children can be very perceptive and clear about huge decisions like that, and I have n doubt that your son is the same. I thnk that the GP should have given you a referral on the gorunds that a referral is not a one way ticket to an operation but to further knowledge and decision making - primarily by your son.

But bullying is by no means a given, and anyway, even if you 'fix' all the things that can be changed about a child, what if they are the bullied for something imperceptible, or intangible, or which can't be 'fixed'?

Find out as much expert info and opinion as you can, but of course, your lovely DS must make his own decision.

By the way, when you say as big as a satsuma, do you mean the slightly raised circumfernce of a satsuma or it sticks out the size a round satsuma?

Oh, and not sure why anyone thinks having a GA is a reason not to do anything - DS has had 8 GAs now...that is the least of anyone's worries, IMO!!!

After just going through nursing DS through a circumcism (sp?), which was absolutely necessary, I would say that I would never put a child through any type of surgery unless it was medically necessary!

Leave it until he is older and can make the choice himself - he sounds like a very confident happy young lad - a child you should be immensely proud of.

I agree with MadameCastafiore in a way that it is not neccesary to put a child through surgery that was not medically needed, but surely if its a facial thing that is obvious and that will no doubt cause him upset in the future (ie bullying, loss of confidence) then as his mother she should do the best by him now. Especially as he is so young and not really old enough to make sensible decisions about his future.

Sorry people my opinion after having gone through it.

OP do you get the feeling that he is really happy with is birthmark or do you think he might be using this because he is frightened of having an operation?

You have obviously done a good job of instilling confidence into him but he may also have picked up on buzz words and phrases. 'It makes me special' may well be what he truly means but it could also mean 'if I say this it sounds right and then I wont have to have injections and people cutting me'.

We should never assume kids understand things, particularly medical stuff. We may think we have explained procedures to them, they nod and say they understand but underneath they are terrified.

I cant forget my beautiful DD when she was about to have chemo for the first time. She was so clever, so bright. I had talked to her, the nurses had spoken to her. We thought she knew what was going to happen. I noticed she was getting upset and managed to get out of her that she thought chemotherapy involved some sort of electric shock treatment. I couldnt have been more shocked.

Anyway - back to point. I think some posts are way too harsh. Why assume you care more about this child's well being than the mother does? The OP has bought her child up to love himself, she has taught him self confidence and pride. So now she has suddenly turned into a pushy, appearance obsessed, shallow parent? Really

I am actually worried about this being in AIBU, tbh the only people that have opinions i'd listen to are those that have kids with similar issues

I dont mind the bitchy comments usually (in face i love em!!) but when its about this issue and a child it upsets me OP

I also think it's a shame this thread is in AIBU - it's very easy to condemn when it's not an issue you've ever had to deal with.

Similar to some of the other posters, I had cosmetic surgery when I was 9 because I was born without any whorls inside one ear. I didn't want to have an operation (largely because I was terrified) but my parents pressed again and I had it reconstructed (took 5 hours of surgery). It wasn't pleasant and it really hurt afterwards but now I am sooooo pleased they had it fixed.

It never was an issue for me because it was sorted when I was still young enough for it not to have been one. If I'd waited until I had felt that I'd wanted to have it fixed, I know I would have been really self-conscious about it. Good on you for seeking a referral.

And there is a very good argument for having surgery on the NHS for cosmetic reasons because something is causing psychological distress. Mental health is just as important as physical health.

my parents 'pressed again'? I think I meant 'pressed on'

I think it's very important that ds is won over before the op.

My ds2 had a large birthmark on his lower back/bum. He started talking about whether it would be possible to have it removed when he was about 8 (because he was being teased about it). We took him to the GP to discuss it just before his 9th birthday. In the past 18 months since then he has had a series of 4 operations and 6 visits to the consultants' clinic. He has had to go through quite a lot of pain and discomfort, each operation involves severe restrictions on his activities for several weeks afterwards, it's a 2-3 hour round trip to the clinic so has also involved a lot of time off school.

Do ask me if you want to know any more details.

Only read first few posts so apoligies if I am repeating stuff or the thread has moved on.

Your GP is unreasonable to not refer you. It is not their decision to prevent you even exploring this option with a surgeon who can give you (and your son) enugh information to make a proper informed decision.

It would not be unreasonable for the plastic surgeon to refuse to operate if they believed it would be against your sons wishes and interests but your GP does not have the expertise to make this call.

See another GP in the practice and get referred, or if you cannot do so write a complaint explaining as you have here why you want a referral

There was a piece about this on radio 4 this morning... anybody hear it?

Yes, I heard most of it, and made not of it to mention it on this thread.

"...made note of it..."

The only reason you want this birthmark removed is because it is unsightly to you. If your son was being teased and bullied because of it he would be asking for it to be removed in a flash. That time may come in the future. Birthmark removal is not time specific so he should have it done when he feels its the right time. Im so impressed with his maturity and confidence and that the children and adults he associates with are so accepting. Pity you cant be. Take your lead from him and be proud of him. People like you probably think the disabled shouldnt be let out in public because theyre not 'perfect'

He will probably be bullied over it later and as a teenager become very conscious of it.

It would be different if this were an operation to get a prettier nose or something, but this is removing a defect.

I'm strongly against piercing ears of small children because that IS just selfish on the parents part, but this is intended for DS's benefit and that is a choice a parent should be able to make.

Thanks for your responses everybody. I think I put this in AIBU as I felt so cross with the GP for judging me to be the kind of pushy vile parent that barnpotsmum thinks I am. I want to do what is best for ds and that is sometimes a minefield.

I am hoping that I can get some answers from the plastic surgeon about whether laser therapy to tone down the colour of the birthmark is possible. I do not want him to have a GA unless there is no other option, what parent would?

The worry I have is that the GPs decision was based on funding rather than on a clinical or ethical basis. I disagree with her anyway and am quite insulted that she thinks she what's best for ds after a five minute meeting and hearing him say about two sentences. She didn't hear him earlier that morning on the subject of whether batman or spiderman was the best superhero; he is still very young.

It's good to hear the stories from people going through or who have been through similar situations. Thanks roisin and justsue.

barnpot what on earth makes you think you care more about this child than his mother does? How can you make such ridiculous comments based on a few sentences?

How do you think this child manages to be so full of confidence about his appearance unless it is from his parents and family? Do you imagine he would be so if his mother had kept him hidden away?

At times in his life my son's face has been severely disfigured by a skin condition. We have always told him he is beautiful and the people that say 'ugh look at you' to him are idiots.

That hasnt stopped us doing all we can to keep his condition under control.

We are a family who are very positive about difference and disability. We are not idiots though, willing to sacrifice our child's well being on the alter of ideology.

As parents we have to take responsiblity for what is best for our children. We cannot always get it right. We can only do our best.

Comparing someone who wishes to help her son with someone who wants to keep disabled people hidden away is rather an exagerated leap.

If he likes it as he thinks it makes him special, then it may cause more harm to have it taken away against his will.
I agree that he can have it done at any time, and if he is at some point being bullied, then he'll want to have it done.

Broad adherance to societal norms is a very important human thing. People who are outside of societal norms for whatever reason have always been marginalised (or worse).

Huge steps have been made in broadening societal norms to include eg gay people disabled people, and that is the right way for society to go.

Other societal norms being weakened have maybe not such desirable results eg public drunkeness now being more acceptable than in recent history.

However, whatever you think of the norms themselves, the fact is that they exist and as human beings it is understandable to wish to conform.

barnpotsmum I would ask if you also vent your spleen at women who wear wigs when they have lost their hair due to cancer treatment. What atrocious vanity.

Our plastics surgeon said that for ds2's type of birthmark laser treatment was no good.
a) Because it was so large so it would need many, many courses of treatment.
b) Because it likely includes a defect in some deep layers of the skin tissue, so it would just grow back.
c) The laser treatment affects the quality of the skin and makes it thinner/papery.

ds2 had 4 ops, but unfortunately had a major growth spurt just after his 4th op, so the scar tissue stretched and stretched, and the final cosmetic effect isn't great. We're going back in about 6 months' time for them to review what it looks like and how it is settling down.

On the plus side when he was 10 the started asking him whether he'd be happy to have the ops with a local rather than a GA, and for the final op he did agree to this procedure, which obviously reduces the risks immensely.

trice I think you have had some unnecessarily harsh treatment on this thread. It is pretty obvious that you want to do the best for your son for HIS sake, no one else's - and that you are trying to avoid a potential bullying situation.
You have also obviously done a great job of helping your DS feel secure about his looks (I doubt you would have managed so well if YOU had a problem with it)

However - I think your GP should have given you the referral, as you and your DS would have had to have a discussion with the consultant as to what the procedure involved . This might have made a difference to either or both of your opinions and I agree with whoever said the GP was outside their remit in refusing the referral.

PLease see another Gp. Get a referral. Deamnd it. Make a decision after speaking tot he surgeon.
a Gp refused to remove my mole. I am so glad I insisted. I hated it. One of the best things I did, insisting.

Your GP is right, if your son is happy with his appearance, then what's to discuss? And how could you discuss it in a way that would not make him feel incredibly self-conscious about it?

I don't think many plastic surgeons would be able to discuss this in a sensitive manner with an 8 year old, and maybe your GP is trying to protect him from a negative experience. (I know, sweeping generalisation aout all plastic surgeons but I've come across a few in my time).

FWIW, I know where you're coming from in your fears of bullying. My ds has had plastic surgery for a congenital medical condition, and I'm petrified of the potential for him losing all his bubbly self-confidence later in childhood, as he does look different from other kids.

I hope that he's as confident about this when he's 8 as your son is, you've obviously done a fantastic job, now you have to trust him to make his own decision.

FWIW, (and as the mother of a child with a conegnital medical "disfigurement" which we have already been referred to GOSH/plastic surgeon in advance of future operations (and not possibly for another nine or ten years!)) - do what you think is best as the obviously very loving mother of your son.

please ignore the negative comments here - some people have an unbelievably simplistic view of the world. you have clearly been doing a great job raising your son to feel confident and, rightly, special.

you can hold this thought with the others you have re:protecting him from unneccesary bullying etc you fear in the future, as you see it. the two are not mutually exclusive.

referrals seem to widely vary depending on where you are in the country, too. if and when you do see a specialist, maybe explain to your son that you are just finding out about choices he can make, maybe in the future.

good luck.