to think it's unreasonable to "absent" grandparents to show up for all the good bits?

[loonpants]

Bit of background.

We live in our home town but our only family is my in-laws.

My in-laws are alright in a sort of "meh" kind of way. They don't show much emotion, MIL is a bit thin-lipped (think Pauline Fowler). They don't offer any help with the kids; visit in fits and starts (every weekend for a few weeks then nothing for a couple of months).

When they do visit, they don't get terribly involved with the kids. I think they like the trappings of being grandparents (photographs on the mantlepiece etc) but don't want to get their hands dirty. They have friends who are involved with their grandchildren (in terms of helping or babysitting) and I know for a fact that one of them warned my MIL against offering too much help when our first child was born.

Alright, that's their choice. It's a real disappointment and we do feel unsupported but we've found some babysitters and occasionally manage to get out (well, once in the past 5 months!).

As an example, DD1 is appearing in a little ballet show in our town centre next month. We have three tickets so offered one to my MIL and asked whether FIL would mind walking the baby for an hour in the town centre while we watch the show. He has reluctantly agreed but is clearly very put out at the thought so we've made alternative arrangements and now have a babysitter coming to the house for the afternoon. TBH I feel like retracting the ticket from my MIL given their attitude, but it's a bit late as we've mentioned it.

They are both 60. They go on holiday abroad about three times a year, perfectly fit and well. They come back from their holidays and sit and tell us all about what a nice time they've had, completely failing to acknowledge what a rough time we're having looking after two small kids. They are away at the moment and I know they'll be round here next week showing us their photographs of Lanzarote.

The reason I'm posting is because MIL has suddenly mentioned that she wants to take DD1 to see a pantomime this Christmas. It's on a weekday when I couldn't go because I have nobody to care for the baby.

Now normally, I'd think this is lovely. I would LOVE my children to have grandparents who take them for a day out BUT - going to the pantomime is something I really look forward to. It's like one of the best bits of being a mum, something nice in the middle of all the hard work. I was really hoping to take DD myself and completely resent my MIL muscling in for all the "good bits" when she offers no practical help (or even consistency) for the rest of the year.

AIBU?

Think my dad would hate having to push a baby round a shopping centre for an hour, better to have him babysit in his house , although suspect if my mum was alive I'd have my mum and dad go together to panto and me look after baby as my dad would enjoy being with my mum and granddaughter far more than looking after a baby.

There is no way either my fil or my step father would look after a 5 month old baby or come to think of it, walk around a shopping centre with or without a baby!

Not because they dont want to as such, but because they would not have a clue and would panic if left alone with a baby.

I remember my step father shaking my ds's hand when he was about 18 months old and saying 'how are you today' to which my ds just kept repeating his name!

To the older men in this family, you dont exist until you have hold a proper conversation or buy a round of drinks

have, i meant can

diddl I think you are determined to find a reason why I am unreasonable. Perhaps you are right, perhaps it's hard for a man to kill an hour in a shopping centre with a sleeping baby in a pushchair. Perhaps that's a perfectly good reason not to help us out, perhaps I just can't see it.

I admit I feel quite attacked by this thread. I have two small children who I love dearly. I have a lovely husband and lots of mates. The kids are truly fabulous but they are incredibly hard work. Is your life ever harder than when you have two little kids, three jobs, a mortgage?

My friends are busy with their own kids so we don't see as much of each other as we used to. It's normal, it wiill improve with time, but right now it's hard.

This is the hardest time of my life. I have no parents and I struggle at times to cope. My in-laws offer no help (and yes, I have asked and yes, I had depression after DD1 and I told my MIL this and she still didn't help).

I feel let down and resentful of them, especially when they "cherry pick" and ignore the bits that don't suit them. I wish they could be more supportive. I suspect they will want my support in years to come and I am expected to give this graciously.

I used to have family but they have died. We used to support one another and I can't understand not wanting to.

Despite this, so many of you have attacked me. Apparently I sound weak. Perhaps I am. I do feel weak. I often feel like crying as I wish I had a mum myself. Self pity, perhaps, but it's hard, especially at xmas when I just want to be a family.

Thanks to those who said they understood. I think some others have been uneccesarily harsh but you're entitled to your opinion.

Loonpants - give up poppet.

These threads always go the same way 'Oh but my parents never see the grandchildren', 'Oh but mine hate the grandchildren and would rather set themselves on fire than see them' 'Well my parents do set themselves on fire if they spend more than 2 seconds with their grandchildren' etc etc.

Competitive hard done by-ness and then the utter idiocy that is 'if you would like your parents / pil more involved with your children you must have a sense of entitlement'. YAWN.

Of course you want parents / pils involved with your children. This is totally normal. And its totally normal to feel let down or upset if they don't seem interested.

My parents used to see my dd for one day and night a week. Now she is at school they see her every weekend and usually have her over night once every two weeks or so. Not because we ask but because they WANT to. Does this mean I have a sense of entitlement? Errr, no, my parents just want to see their grandchildren.

All my friend's parents are the same. They all like going on family days out / babysitting etc, why wouldn't they??

Don't take any of the comments you have received on this thread to heart, especially the nasty stuff from arwen, totally uncalled for.

I hope you can sort it and if not have a lovely (immediate) family christmas anyway.

haven't read all the comments so apologies if this has been said.
Don't think you're being unreasonable, but perhaps your PIL are worried about intruding? This 'friend' who gave your MIL advice about not offering too much help when you had your first child may have actually pushed them too far in the opposite direction, and they are concerned with coming across as intefering.

I'm guessing this has been going on for a while as you also have a 5 month old, but perhaps they are trying to get involved but if it's in fits and starts then it can come across as slightly awkward.

I know that my dad would be worried if he hadn't spent much time with my DD about looking after her alone for a while, so perhaps that's why it came across as reluctance. Obviously it's been a while since he had his kids and perhaps he wasn't so hands-on when they were babies so he's nervous.

re: the panto, I'd suck it up and let your MIL take her as this could be a way of moving forwards. Afterwards get your DD to make a card for her nan saying how much she enjoyed going to the panto with her and perhaps it will pave the way for them to get more involved and perhaps help out in the future.

Hope you get on ok.

I find it very hard to empathise with you. Just take the baby to the panto, it's a family event, people will understand if it gets a bit whingy and then you just step out for a while. Like someone else said, I have never got a babysitter for this type of event. The more you share fun with your MIL the more you will build shared experiences and she might wish to spend more time with your kids.

The present thing is bizarre too. I was just hoping the other day that some relatives might say 'here's some money, get something from me'. Sometimes that happens, sometimes it doesn't. When it does, I just reallocate something I bought, and am glad that it saved me some money and I probably buy too much anyway. People do it because they don't know what to buy.

You were asking what you could do to make things better, it sounds like better communication would be good: 'MIL, you will really upset DD if you don't come tonight (Christmas Eve). Can you come and stay a short time?'. If she says no, ask what you should tell DD. When you go out say we will be back at x time (and be back then). Ask directly if they could babysit one night every two months. If they say no you won't have any expewctations to be dashed.

I am definately in the camp that grandparenting should be fun and anything else is a bonus.

Would also go to the panto with your little girl - at the end of the day she's going to love going twice!!

thing is though op, you asked whether you were being unreasonable and some people think you are.

If you ask the question, then you surely need to be prepared for the answer.

And let's be honest - your first post said nothing about the relationship your children were missing out on - it was all about the support you thought you were entitled to and you begrudging your ILs holidays while they should be acknowledging what a hard time you're having. In fact you didn't want your Mil to take dd to the panto so clearly in the op you didn't feel you should be facilitating this relationship at all.

But at the end of the day, while it can be tough with small children, this is a choice you made, and not your ILs responsibility.

loonpants, I did cross post with your last post and I do feel really sorry that you haven't got your own family any more.

I think the good thing about this thread is that you can see that the situation is not unusual and to take what support and love they can offer and focus on the positive rather than the ngative. Sorry if that is too simplistic.

OP YANBU. My parents love their grandchildren and look after them on a regular basis because it gives them pleasure. It is sad that so many on this thread think that YABU for wanting your ILs to be more interested in your DDs, and for occasionally wanting a little bit of time to yourself. Ho hum - in with anger, out with love.

Sorry you feel attacked but people are jsut responding to what you have written, this is how you come across.

Your comment 'I feel let down and resentful of them' is telling. You may not realise it but your thoughts will colour your attitude and behaviour to your in laws...they can no doubt pick up on your dislike of them and so they are then less likely to help you and so on...

You either need to speak to them properly about how you feel or get over it and lett hem have a relationship with your children even if it isnt exactly how you would wish it to be.

Mooma is right...take the baby with you to the ballet thing.

And why cant you all go to the panto...it doesnt have to be you OR MIL...maybe this would even improve your relationship or be a good chance to talk to her.

Life isnt always easy with 2 little ones but my stewing about stuff like this you are making it harder on yourself.

Why should they help?

It's not the law that grandparents should.

My IL's sound just like yours. But I have no expectations. We have great times with them, holidays away but I don't expect them to do any childcare. They won't. I always thought it's because they couldn't cope with 3 kids (I have DD and twin boys) but they just don't want to babysit. They will take them to the zoo and trips out. They took DD to see The Lion King last Christmas and have a big plan for all 3 this year. The kids love it and have a wonderful time.

I wish they would babysit more for me but I'm happy they are involved at all.

I also buy their presents or email links to what they want. They would rather get something the DC's really want than risk buying something as they feel out of touch with children and don't know what they already have. I prefer it.

You say that despite all the things in your life, we have attacked you.

But we didn't know about them.

And i still wouldn't expect my dad or FIL to wander around a shopping centre for an hour with a baby. It doens't mean we all have dysfunctional relationships, it just means they are older men who weren't terribly hands on with their own children and would rather knaw their own legs off than even go to a shopping centre in the first place, let alone with a baby in tow.

If I were you I would take DD to a panto before the MIL one, and let MIL take her to the other one. That was DD gets two outings and everyone is happy (I hope).

don't you think that this is all rather silly really.

Im a single mum, ds is 9yrs ... I have 3 sis/ aunties (only one of which is a mother herself) to my ds and he has 2 grannies. My mother (granny!) has had gc 3 times overnight and I never ask her to babysit.
She tries to visit us once a month overnight and we see aunties once in a blue moon and maybe sees other granny twice a year.
We all live within 50 miles.
We meet up for birthdays and pow pows to discuss christmas shopping for kids.

This will be the first time we have ever had christmas with granny1 coming to ours and we are really looking forward to it.

None of us joined at the hip and all of us making our own choices in life. Life not being the lovely box of chocs, loving close nit group, falling over to help and support each other because of blood ties nonsense ... lovely thought but not realistic for most people ... really!!!!

GPs, aunties, whatever ... you are off the hook ... title and blood does NOT mean you have any particular duty to BE a certain way because you decided to have children !!!! You live your life and they live theirs. No expectations, No dissappointments.

Isn't this a better way to think about it?

... maybe you would have more time to actually like your ILs instead of resenting them so much for dissappointing you???? I'm sure they must feel your resentments and it can't be helping at all ... I wouldnt want to spend much time with you either if I were them!!!

Hi loonpants I read your post and understand exactly what you are saying. I admit I have not read all the replies but do not need too.

My situation is similar in that PIL want to 'cherry pick' what they want. MIl always moans about not getting enough photos and her lounge is like a shrine to the Grandchildren but as for getting involved well that seems to be too much effort for her!

My situation is different in that my PIL live a long way away, but they chose to visit only once per year (despite affording to head off on holiday elsewhere).

I was sad about this for the first two years of DD life then DS was born and I thought 'F* them' they are missing out. It is a shame and I would like them to be involved but they are making choices that I cannot control. But I can control how I react to the choices they make.

I am not totally at ease with them but I am better about it now than 2 years back. Ironically now my eldest is able to talk on the phone (she is 4) she chooses not to talk to nanny. For me that speaks volumes and is the consqeunce of their actions!

It is sad when family disappoint us but make your life easier and accept it. Encourage contact when it is offered but don't expect it that way you won't be let down!

Good luck....

Loonpants have just seen your last post and pretty much agree with moomaa.

Focus on your immediate family and take whatever your PIL can offer as a bonus. It is hard if you had such a good relationship with your nanna and you can see that this is perhaps not going to happen for your children, but I would take what they offer and perhaps over time this will develop. A danger if you push back on any offers is that they dry up all together which it seems clear you don't want.

Your PIL are quite young if they are both only 60 and perhaps now is the first time they have no parental/ financial responsibilities so they are just doing what we did pre-kids slightly later in life whilst they are both still fit and healthy.

OP, I´m sorry you think the way you do.

Just trying to see things from both sides is all.

I know my own father wouldn´t push a pram around a shopping centre for an hour for example.

You seem to expect them to do things and I wonder if this has made them back off a little.

Perhaps they are wary of offering too much in case it becomes expected.

I am not sure that the thread was full of competetive hard done by-ness rather full of people who were saying 'I have grandparents who don't care/don't help but it is just one of those things'

It may well be that some of us are surrounded by loving attentive grandparents amongst our family and friends but it really really isn't always likethat. And it is simply not reasonable to set up some standard by which we believe Grandparents should behave and complain when they don't.
By and large they have no chosen to become grandparents - it is rather our choice to become parents.
I have absent in laws and it is a sad thing.
My children spend a lot of time having to be reasurred that they are lovely - grandaprents have not chosen to be absent because they were not nice enough grandchildren.
I would welcome attention as children need extended family when it is on offer. The OPs in-laws attention may seem lack lustre but they do seem to make an effort at times and I think it is one of those times when we put our childrens needs in front of ours .

Unless there is good reason to suspect that DD will be treated badly then she should enjoy the experience of her grandparents wishing to be with her when it is offered.

Loonpants. I am sorry you are feeling attacked but you are talking about your in-laws as if they are failing to meet some mythical grandparenting standard.
For many many of us Grandparents are a relatioship that we have to work at in order for our children to enjoy the benfit.

FWIW watching my mother get older I am happy she has enjoyed recent years doing some things for herself. I love it when she visits, the kids love it too but she should have some time without responsibility before she loses the ability to do so.

"Cherry-picking" grandparents are a local speciality here in Paris. Lots of grandparents won't have their grandchildren round/to stay unless the nanny goes too - they don't want to do any chores at all.

Loonpants, I could have wrote much of what you have written about my own mil.

I often give her a bashing on mn, usually just to get things off my chest and to stop it grating me.

I have low expectations of her. She comes to see dh, not the grandchildren and as such my children are not particulary close to her.
She also cherry picks - birthdays and "special" events to the extent that she comes 3 times in 10 weeks and then we don't see her for 3 months.

I have started to "manage" her and hopefully this will manifest itself with the fact that I can bare her visits slightly more.

You need to do whatever it takes to help yourself and your children take the positives in your il's and work with them.

well if there's a nanny helping the parents why shouldn't s/he help the gps?

Nannies aren't slaves you know! They don't like working weekends and evenings, or all summer long. That's why it gets problematic.

Loonpants - you are fortunate to have any family living close by and to have PILs who visit your dcs is lovely and you are lucky to have that. You shouldn't expect them to "get their hands dirty" because they've done all that with their own children and now they are GPs their role is one of enjoyment, not having to do the harder sides of parenting.

Accept it, appreciate what you have and don't begrudge your PILs their own life. They were like you once, working hard, raising children, not getting much of a social life - it's not fair to resent them taking holidays or not wanting to push your baby round for an hour.
If they offer to do something which makes your life easier, then that's a bonus, if they don't, just be grateful that they value their time with your dcs.

If the panto means that much to you, why not either take the baby along too or arrange to go another time with your dcs so you can enjoy it too.