To think that this Times article about selfish mothers is vile

[mumbot]

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/janice_turner/article6916343.ece

A bitter and one sided view of motherhood. Do you agree?

OAP's lack manners too-I am often shocked. I daresay they lacked manners when they were parents of young children! I expect the person who wrote the note will feel free, when old and disabled, to leave rude notes on windscreens. Rudeness has nothing to do with age. Probably their parents never taught them politeness!

'Especially íf I´m wondering whether or not to offer a seat in case I might cause offense.'

When mine were under 5 yrs I would have just put them on my knee to free up a seat for anyone. e.g. if a 12 yr old were standing I would ask them if they wanted the seat.

Not all elderly people have senility - some have been grumpy buggers there entire life. I do teach my children good manners but very often they are not extended back to us.

I suppose our personal experiences also colour us.

I have been looked at pointedly when on bus with a child.

But people with their bags on seats next to them don´t get the same looks.

The article is vile.

I dont care if she's a mn'er, the article makes her sound like a bitter old cow.

I completely agree with her points about what was done to her parents and about big buggies on buses.. i only have a maclaren, but i will always fold it if i use the bus.

However... i think the rest of it was a trite, tinned biased and predjudiced view of a bitter woman who is clearly pissed off that mothers these days are being a bit pushier about having a life instead of being forced to stay at home glued to the sink.

I dont want to take my 11yo to a concert, i dont want to change my baby on the pub table, nor do i want to breastfeed her in church.

what i want as a mother, is to be able to take my kids out and live my life ASWELL as being a mother.

She sounds like she thinks everyone ought to suck it up because her life as a mother with small children was so shitty.

Well.. here's my message to you sweetheart.
It ain't the 90's anymore, this is 2009, why dont YOU hit the shuffle button and get with the times and stop bitching because we mums are inconveniencing your perfect little life.

I would hope my DD would be welcome in most places, on the basis that she's happy and being good company. She actively craves interaction with people and it makes me sad to think that some parents don't want their children interacting with others because of some perceived danger.

It is true there are some parents who seem to let their children run riot and make things thoroughly unpleasant for everyone, but IME these are in the minority. Articles like this one do nothing to help the reputation of the majority of parents who are considerate and who are just trying to raise their kids the best they can.

Going on some of the comments posted after the article (and having seen many similar) there seems to be a fair few people out there who have very hostile attitudes towards parents and children. Articles like this one are sadly just fodder for the family-haters. I'm always shocked at the hostility of some people .

I ask people to move bags-they always do.
I agree that rudeness might be to do with dementia, but I was talking about the perfectly normal elderly person who can sail through a door held open by a 8yr old without saying thank you.It happens a lot and a smile and a thank you don't cost anything!

' i think the rest of it was a trite, tinned biased and predjudiced view of a bitter woman who is clearly pissed off that mothers these days are being a bit pushier about having a life instead of being forced to stay at home glued to the sink.'

I get the impression that she has always had a life and has never been glued to the kitchen sink! She strikes me as a successful woman.

When mine were small and at the double buggy stage I always found that grandmothers were the most helpful people around.

I mean that they often helped me up steps and things and told me they knew how difficult it was because they had done it and now their was daughter was doing it!

I think she talks a lot of sense.

I found middle aged men to be the most helpful. I always folded my buggy up but I am perplexed about the vitriol reserved for mothers with buggies on buses. Public transport is supposed to be for everyone.

They only let one unfolded buggy on at a time in Edinburgh. The bus driver won't let you on. If a someone in a wheelchair needs the space you either have to get off or fold the buggy up.

I am not a wheelchair user but my grandad used one for the last year of his life. That was before wheelchair access buses so he mainly used taxis but only really went out a couple of times a week. I do have some limited understanding of the frustrations involved.

thats interesting and

annie

I agree with most points that have been made in the article, although i do think more spite was used then needed.

My son is disabled, he has asd with low muscle tone in his legs. His buggy is like a wheelchair for him, he has not been diagnosed due to huge waiting lists. Totally non verbal and doesn't understand reasoning. And to outsiders looking in, looks like any other child. If he doesn't get diagnosed soon i will have to get a heavy duty pram to support him properly, as i have no chance of being able to afford a wheelchair ( they aren't exactly cheap ).

Now say i do have to get a heavy duty pram, to provide somewhere safe and secure for my son to sit. Nice to know i will be judged as treating him as a PFB, if i dare to take him on public transport. As it is i tend to avoid public transport for this very reason. People judging on things they have no right to judge upon. I have not yet developed my thick skin to deal with tuts and sidewards looks.

So while i agree some people do treat their children as if they are precious helpless little angels, spare a thought for those of us who are just trying to go about our lives.
I wish my son was as capable of doing the everyday things most children can do, but he isn't and unless i start carrying around a big neon sign saying he is disabled no one would know that he is as entitled to space on public transport as anyone else. I would also like to add, if my son was able bodied then i wouldn't think twice about folding his buggy and having him on my lap.Rant over

It was v ranty and angry but I agree with the theme of the article.

I have had my kids over 18 years. When DD and DS1 were born you couldnt push your buggy on the bus. You folded it or walked. It was a pain but you got on with it.

When I had DS3 15 years later I was amazed that you could walk straight on. I was more amazed at young fit parents moaning and waiting ages for the next bus they could get on rather than walk half a mile!

P&C spaces, nice but not essential. For those with newborns and multiples they are more helpful but for parents with 5 year olds? (NT) come on!

'Chav' parents get a lot of bad press for letting their kids get away with murder but more affluent parents are just as unlikely to set boundaries and teach good manners IMO.

I am on number 5 so am by no means a child hater. But parents like the ones described in the article only care about their kids anyway. They are not after a child friendly society they just want everything to go their way.

Back in Medieval England, when I had my children, we Just Got On With It. I dragged my kids 10 miles a day to sell eggs at the market. My sister lost her kids to smallpox but hey, we Just Got On With It. My parents had to work till they dropped to feed and warm themselves, but they Just Got On With It. My disabled nephew was stoned by his neighbours but he Just Got On With It. When my husband ran off with a milkmaid and I was raped by my lord and master because I was tied to his land and had no choice but to eat his food, I Just Got On With It.

Because my situation is worse than yours, and because civilisation and social progress is a bad thing, it's a Pain but you should all Just Get On With It. IMHO.

Hardly the same thing as having to fold a buggy Wilf.

I didn't think it was vile at all and nodded in agreement with a lot of it. I used to walk for miles with the buggy so I didn't have to get on the bus, fold buggy up, hoik child and bags on, hoik them off again etc. The problem is that too many people are lazy-arses nowadays and are unwilling to walk anywhere - yes, even across a carpark.