To think that this Times article about selfish mothers is vile

[mumbot]

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/janice_turner/article6916343.ece

A bitter and one sided view of motherhood. Do you agree?

I didn't bother reading the article as it had been pretty much covered a week ago on Mumsnet.

I find it weird that journalists are shitting themselves about the death of newspapers but insist on churning drivel out like this. I tend to avoid any article that covers anything about motherhood. I find my own life dull enough without spending £1 to read someone elses view about how to raise children.

Yawn.

Oh and I can't drive so the hole P&T thing goes straight over my head.

The anonymous note on the windscreen WAS vile.

Re; the point re: massive buggies. I must admit I have one (yes it was expensive but it has given good service to three babies). The buggy holds a carry-cot for the first six months and when I wheel it around supermarkets (don't worry - I don't try to get into the chic little boutiques) the older shop assistants often remark how lovely it is to see a baby lying down facing his mummy. Just another example of you not being able to do anything right as a parent? And I never try to push anyone over apart from the obese people. Shall we start victimising them next?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the anonymous note on the windscreen had been a mad up scenario. Then a bunch of outraged Mumsnetters kindly wrote the rest of the article for her.

I don´t see that it could only have been written by a parent, tbh.

Some people get concerned when they think they see someone parking where they shouldn´t even though it doesn´t affect them.

That´s why I wondered why the article was about parents/children.

And I´ll probably get flamed for this, but why should a child stand on a train/bus.
Their seat has been paid for.
Why should they stand & be knocked about by others?

I think that anyone who wasn't a parent would be pleased to see someone park in the space if they really needed it. The only times I have felt like saying something (but haven't) is when a parent with car seats in her car parks in the space but has no DCs with her at the time!

agree with some points but not a very good article on the whole. not well written and just meh. but i do recognise the mother worship some people seem to expect by virtue of them having reproduced successfully, and how now their views on anything are somehow laden with extra gravitas and must be prefaced with "as a mother...", which i accept is valid on parentig issues but just makes me cringe when it's on something to do with war/the budget/racism.

Diddl, they have paid a half fare - the conditions of carriage would normally say that a child can have a seat only if one is available.

Their seat is half price on the understanding they will sit on the parent's lap if busy! If free they haven't paid for a seat in the first place. If a parent wants their DC to have a seat on a busy train with people standing they should insist on paying full price. I don't think they do!!

I don't think the article was vile, there were some valid points in there about the general selfishness of people and inability to have any consideration for others.

BUT there were some odd comments about motherhood and this 'sense of entitlement' of which the author speaks is not solely the domain of parents.

Also worthy of note I think is that in many ways Britain is very family UNfriendly when compared to our European counterparts (just read some of the comments underneath that article...), so no surprise when parents get overly defensive and protective of their DCs.

It made me rather sad really. Have to say that since having a child it has actually made me think MORE about the lives and needs of others. I feel like a member of a community with responsibilities to others beyond my own concerns. I notice other people more now and empathise with them more readily. As a single, happy go lucky career girl I think I was way more selfish and intolerant.

"but why should a child stand on a train/bus" It's just a question of courtesy and common sense, surely? If you and your small child are taking up two seats on a bus and an elderly and frail person gets on only to find all the seats are taken, surely the best/kindest/most respectful thing to do would be get your child to sit on your lap?

One day, you may well be frail and elderly and I am sure you will appreciate younger, fitter people extending the same courtesy to you.

If it is busy we always go upstairs. However, I would like to point out that pensioners go free. Even my Mum who is still working but only 63 and would be offended if you offered her your seat. She will, though, quite happily use her free bus pass to travel from Edinburgh to Inverness. Public transport is great for OAPs so long as they avoid the rush hour. I have never seen a pensioner go without a seat and I use the buses most days.

I've just read every word of the article on mnet at some point, Unoriginal

Not vile.

Pretty good article

'Also worthy of note I think is that in many ways Britain is very family UNfriendly when compared to our European counterparts (just read some of the comments underneath that article...), so no surprise when parents get overly defensive and protective of their DCs.

The difference is that in child friendly countries children are expected to behave in a way that doesn't upset others. Very few people object to polite children, but they object strongly to parents who won't keep their DCs under control and will get abusive if a stranger dares to try! In child friendly countries people don't mind strangers talking to or touching their DC. You can't have it both ways!

Good point about free pensioner travel, particularly if, like you say, the 'pensioner' is actually a fit and well 60yo. Both of my parents would be horrified at being offered a seat based on their age (although they would be polite about it)

pisces that is very true about behaviour! Chicken and egg isn't it? If we welcomed children more readily perhaps we'd have more well behaved children? But who wants to socialise with monsters

knew I would get flamed!

Rindercella-this is unnecessary"One day, you may well be frail and elderly and I am sure you will appreciate younger, fitter people extending the same courtesy to you."

Just because I asked, doesn´t mean I am not courteous.

Just thinking of young children being tired or knocked about by bags.
In that case I would rather stand myself if child couldn´t comfortably sit on lap.

I don't think we are talking about fit, healthy 60yr olds who are quite capable of running a marathon or having a week's skiing holiday (there are lots of them about!)60 isn't elderly! It should be quite obvious who is in need of a seat-I would give up my seat if they needed it. I would give up my seat for a pregnant woman-even if she was a teenager. It is a case of need-parents shouldn't need to be asked to sit a DC on their knee if someone needs the seat more.

I would also like to point out that I am often shocked by manners some OAPs clearly seem to lack. Some of them need to remember that they are setting a pretty crap example.

I had to LOL at this;

'crowds of commuters will part in awe at the early morning entrance of the Quinny Zap bearing His Majesty the Baby.'

'Chicken and egg isn't it?'

It is! Some parents want their DCs welcome anywhere and expect people to look on indulgently, while they misbehave, and not to dare talk to them even in a friendly way! (paedophile danger!)

i dont think its vile, i think its actually vile to leave note like that

piscesmoon

"parents shouldn't need to be asked to sit a DC on their knee if someone needs the seat more."

No they shoúldn´t
But I´d rather be asked than be than not.

Especially íf I´m wondering whether or not to offer a seat in case I might cause offense.

As I said on the other thread, I thought it was a fab, well thought-through column.

And I've been flamed before for suggesting able-bodied, healthy children should be taught to give up their seats for adults on the tube.

Teaching children manners and respect for their elders is akin to abuse, I was told...