To think that this Times article about selfish mothers is vile

[mumbot]

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/janice_turner/article6916343.ece

A bitter and one sided view of motherhood. Do you agree?

Hi sunnygirl, I was referring to the fact that in some supermarkets, out local Asda for example, they don't allow people with disability badges to park in parent spaces. So it causes difficulty for everyone.

If they had a legal right to park in that space, then of course it's totally unfair to ask them to move.

Hi cornsilk, on empathy...yes but not because they are parents, just because empathising with the other side of the argument would have made the article seem more balanced

x

wannabe I take your point about the threads you sometimes see on here, but ime the poster is usually given a swift reminder that that's not appropriate. So I don't agree that it's indicative of a majority view.

i think the article is quite good. i didnt read it as the auther thinks that the breast feeding in church and so on shouldnt happen, i think she was trying to say that we are lucky to have all that now that parents didnt used to have but shouldnt let it go to our heads and make us think we rule the world just because we have a baby/small child.

i think any decent parent should and hopefully would give up a parent and child space for a disabled badge holder if they needed it. there is no doubt that they need it more than us.
as well as the fact that those spaces on buses are for disbled people who cannot necessarily get out of their wheelchairs. where as parents can get the child out of buggies and fold the buggy up.

we should be grateful that we have working legs and realise its no hardship to have to walk a bit further whether with a child or not.

Would a supermarket really turn away a blue badge holder rather than let them park in a P&T space? Not really?

no. its a legal right to park anyhere ith a blue badge, and its not like asda can stop you anyay. Are they going to clamp them? No.

I agree ith most of the article, but also about the inherent misogyny in the comments. Pesky mothers trying to hae some form of a life, ho dare they!

I am a bit that the author thinks I shouldn't go to church until by baby is weaned. I honestly don't see why feeding in church is such an inconvenience to others, nor is it exclusive to my generation. It was certainly going on when I was a child. Also my pram is miniature compared to the monstrosity that my mother was using almost 40 years ago.

Is OP the author just looking for compliments?

Another few column inches stating the thoughts of most of us.

She seems to have missed the word 'some' out in several places in the article.

I think it's mean of her to assume that because one idiot parent made a big deal out of her parents parking in 'the wrong' space, doesn't mean she has to write an attack on all parents. Isn't she behaving just as badly as the idiot who left the note on the car.

So someone called her parents 'stupid old bastards' - get over it FFS.

Re car parking spaces at supermarkets and elsewhere - if all the spaces were all a little bit bigger then there would be no need for specific parent/child spaces. That way those of us who still need them could park anywhere without worrying about damaging another car when getting child into childseat. Not suggesting this for disabled spaces as, clearly, much more space may be required for wheelchairs. This will never happen, of course, because it might mean sacrificing a hundred or so spaces to accommodate!

Why would one think it vile? I thought the article was right on, and appreciated the reminder that the world does not revolve around my children.

The examples about breastfeeding in church or changing a nappy on the pub tables are all examples of how a parent may feel entitled to overlook the comfort of other patrons or the respect some people hold for certain situations.

YANBU. While I might not go so far as to say that the article was vile, it is certainly way OTT in the way that it extrapolates from a couple of very nasty people who were extremely rude to the writer's parents to an attitude supposedly held by parents in general.

"Flexi-working, extended maternity leave, paternity rights ? political shifts that have enhanced millions of lives ? will not be scrapped under David Cameron. Or Downing Street would be blockaded by Bugaboos. "

And those bugaboo-pushers would be absolutely right. Having worked at places who were absolutely open about how if you dared to get pregnant, they considered your career with them to be over, protection like that outlined above which makes a statement that having children is good for society as a whole is a good thing.

YABU
its true

Agree with a lot of it. I don't think she is trying to say that you shouldn't be able to breastfeed in church, rather that you would have felt (have been made to feel) uncomfortable with it 20 years ago.

I was at a shop yesterday and it was teeming with rain. I carried my 2 year old all across the car park to the car - we both got soaked and he cried - then drove back to the pick up point to collect my friend and our shopping.

Because of the rain everyone was double parking, and being as quick as possible.

I parked in front of the trolley park so I wouldn't stop any other drivers reversing out, and leapt out of the car to load up and bugger off as soon as possible. As I got out, a car came up and tried to drive into the trolley park (it had trollies in it!). Its driver was motioning me desperately to reverse so that she could get the car right in there.
I called out "Er, it's not a parking space."

She leaned out and said, pleasantly but desperately, "But there's a BABY, and it's pouring with rain." Pointing to her daughter waiting with a car seat ten feet away. I went to reverse my car so she could do what she wanted but did call back, "Yes, and I have just carried MINE through the rain all across the car park."

I heard her plaintive reply "He's just a little BABY!"

(Fair enough I hate it when other people call 2 year olds babies).

While she was cramming her car into the trolley space, I heard her saying to someone else, "Sorry, but I don't want the BABY to get wet." I looked around and this was to a couple with a toddler in a pushchair, all three soaked to the skin.

The "poor baby" looked snug and totally covered up in its car seat, but I am pleased to report that it's grandmother managed to make sure that it only had to risk being exposed to rain for five feet instead of ten.

She was perfectly nice, and I wasn't angry with her, but remain incredulous that she obviously truly felt that absolutely everyone had to make her grandchild's dryness their top priority when their own children were soaking wet. Lovely example of PFG, bless

Agree with OP - the article had a horrible sneering tone to it. But then, The Times is deeply against motherhood. So not surprising.

Bloody good article imo. And I say that as a lazy arsed and relatively affluent SAHM.

How this is a vile article, Christ only knows.

"motherhood"

yawn

the article was brilliant..

agreed with every word...

The Times against motherhood? Puh-leaaase!

I think it an excellent article. It is handy for parents with babies and toddlers to have extra space to open the car door, but I fail to see why they have to be near the doors of the supermarket. If I was designing the car park I would put them in a quiet corner where they didn't have to cross in front of traffic but they had to walk a few hundred yards. I would put a trolley park right next to it with suitable trollies. I would leave spaces near the door for those who struggle to walk or can't walk. Any pram or buggy that goes on a bus should be capable of being collapsed.

YANBU

It's not about thinking that having children elevates you to some sort of god-like status - it's about sheer good manners.

If the person in the article objected to someone parking in a P&C place, they could have said so without insults.

We're all encourgage to think that we are all special, and have rights. Fair enough. But what about priviledges? Not everything coomes to us as a right. What about the rights of others? Our society seems to be about "me!me!me!", and not much about "us". No wonder people develop lop-sided attitudes.

YABVU. Nothing vile about this article at all and I agree with every word.

I find it astounding how many women (and some men) seem to think that the fact that they have managed to reproduce should give them all kinds of rights and benefits over the rest of society.

What they fail to realise is that pretty much everyone else has kids too. There's really nothing special about being a parent and this sense of entitlement to special treatment baffles me.

I htink Janice is winning so far

Thanks to everyone who posted, need to nip off now and brave the weather for some Christmas shopping.

Really enjoyed reading your views whether you agreed or not, thanks for taking part.

mumbot x

I actually agree with most of that article.