To think that this Times article about selfish mothers is vile

[mumbot]

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/janice_turner/article6916343.ece

A bitter and one sided view of motherhood. Do you agree?

I think the article makes a valid point, and while obviously not all parents can or should be tarred with the same brush, I do think that many have a definite sense of entitlement wrt their children. You see it all the time on here for eg:

"I'm pregnant, someone didn't give up a seat for me on a bus/didn't allow me to park in a p&t space."

"Someone without a child was parked in a p&t space even though it was midnight."

"I was in the park with my pfb when he bumped into another child and another parent told him to be more careful. How dare someone else speak to my child when I should be the one to do it."

"my child fell over and someone picked him up before I managed to get there. Nobody else has the right to touch my child other than me."

"my child was naughty at school and a teacher dared to punish him. He is my child, it is up to me whether his behavior warranted punishment or not."

I could go on but ykwim.

I think that we've become a nation where pandering to our children's every want has been misconstrewed as love, and as a result we're raising a generation of "you can't touch me because I know my rights," children who have no respect for authority. Just who is in charge here?

Totally, totally agree wannaBe!

wannabe I can see your points but a whole nation like it? I really don't see that around me at all, obviously I'm not representative of the country as a whole, I do find it hard to believe that the people you describe are anything more than a minority though.

wannaBe thanks for saying what I was trying to say.

JodieO - I do know people like the author of the article describes.

What I don't like is the subtext that mothers not only shouldn't be expecting any special treatment but that they should make themselves invisible for the sake of others. It's ok for everyone else to push themselves forward, grab the seats/parking spaces etc etc as long as they're not mothers. The irony of it all seems to be a bit lost. You can't have that seat because I wanted it.

And before anyone jumps, I am not talking about people with a genuine need for some extra help or consideration, I'm talking about the population at large.

Sure children were loved as much in the past etc but things have changed and there's probably no going back. I agree some people take it to ridiculous extremes but I don't think harking back to the past is the answer.

I actually did find that article quite nasty and is she is a Mnetter then so be it.

Anifrangapani seems so odd that people would behave like that, does noone say anything or challenge them in any way?

Yeah I agree rockbird. I said so in a couple of posts on the other thread.

Jodie, things were so NOT better back then and no I am not going to post all the harder things we did , this is not about comepetative childrearing through the ages.

But yes, I have seen so many parents expect that their precious Children, should come before everything, that what ever their child does is right, whatever they do.

And yes there are quite a few of us on MN with grown up children (some even dare to have Grandchildren )

I do agree with most of the article but I don't think parenthood anywhere could be described as a "doddle".

Shoshe - hard is relative surely? Relative to you and your personal circumstances? Where you were brought up etc. I was brought up in East London and, in a way, things were easier then as we were surrounded by family. I know there are people with grown up children I just didn't think that most did, I think my mum posts/lurks on here and she has 3 grandchildren, and me of course

JodieO I live in a small village - it is best not to rock the boat sometimes.

i liked the article! very true

Apart from 2 things I agreed entirely. I don't get why "breastfeeding in church" was mentioned in the same breath as changing a nappy on a pub table at midnight?? Of course every normal loving mother would feed their baby if it were hungry in church. I don't see why that's in anyway Out of the ordinary?
And she's utterly wrong on the child care vouchers. We don't all earn £40k plus!!! I freaking WISH!! I'm shocked that so many people think penalising us that get off our arses and work to keep this country and economy going is a good thing????

I'm so sick of mothers refusing to fold their buggies on busses. We had to and neither we or the baby died. It left more room for passéngers especially the elderly who need the seats by the door.

And of course it's not just parents with prams who 'selfishly' take up space on the bus. It's all those people who cannot possible put their bag on the floor or even on their own lap - no it needs a seat all of its own.

Anifrangapani I can see what you mean but sometimes it's good to say things too, otherwise people never realise that what they're doing/saying could be wrong, if you see what I mean. Where I live is described as a village but it's not small, not a town but not a village imo. I'm used to London though so it's small compared to that!

Reasons why I thought it was vile:

• Showed little empathy for parents and came across as one sided
• Put the blame for lack of disability parking squarely with mothers rather than the supermarkets
• Made what I personally felt was the disgruntled experience of one person (and I'm not condoning that) then extrapolating that to an assumption that in general mothers have no regard for the feelings of others

At least it read that way to me, hence the post on here.

I felt as though mothers were being labelled in to one behaviour set. If people are parking in an incorrect bay in a supermarket, surely the anger should be directed at changing the policy though the supermarket. Why not aim to achieve something positive from what must have been an upsetting experience?

i'm in agreement with pretty much all of it tbh.

It even extends to playgroups - parents sit with their babies in car seats, in the middle of the main area, and then get huffy about big mean toddlers being loud and bouncy and knocking them/waking them. It seems to be some right to be able to stick your child in whichever place you want regardless of chaos caused. There is a special enclosed section where you can plonk sleeping babies (even with bouncy seats etc provided so no need for the car seats) - why are they not using them?? I could understand if they were pfbs but they are at playgroup with their older children!

(Fairly irrelevant rant there but it is annoying me)

why do parents require our empathy mumbot?

Mumbot - supermarkets wouldn't need to do anything if people parked with some consideration

It is not vile at ALL. I agree with that article, some parts (about the huge prams) made me laugh, it's all true.

The only thing I don't agree with is that children should give up their seats for adults. Why should they? Anyone, regardless of age, should give up their seat for an elderly or clearly struggling person. I'd include a pregnant woman in that too. If an able bodied adult is standing next to an eight year old child who's sitting I disagree that the child should give up his/her seat. No way.

mumbot - I think you're missing something. The writer was using her parent's unpleasant experience as a 'hook' for a slightly different idea - that some parents have a sense of entitlement that seems to be a new thing.

That's just some parents, not all.

What on earth could be a positive outcome for her parents? They were upset by someone's nastiness, not by a supermarket's parking policy.

Mumbot - when you talk about people parking in an incorrect bay in the supermarket carpark, are you referring to TheDullWitch's parents or to that problem in general?

I only ask because TDW's parents had the legal right to park in the parent and child space - the blue badge entitles them to this, but if what you are meaning is that people in general parking in spaces they aren't entitled to, creates the problem because then the spaces aren't there for those who need them, then I completely agree with you.

I don't think the article is vile, and the points she makes are interesting, and often true (though not just about mothers) but I find it interesting that she doesn't mention that when she posted about this on here, 90% of the replies agreed with her. I wonder if, had the response been hostile, she would have used this in support of her argument?