to still be annoyed by being questioned on whether my DS was MINE when flying - because we have different surnames?

[mojomama]

i really just need to 'park it' BUT - when recently flying with my 14month old, a jumped-up passport control bloke detained me and questioned "how do i know he's yours?", because my son has a different surname to me, and, after I'd being driven to the point of apoplexy, suggested, in future, i "travel with a letter from his father giving permission"!!!! What if his dad had passed away?! i was sooo cross, but he started to look like he wouldn't let me board so i calmed down enough to get past him - AIBU???

I personally think we have all those slebs to blame, what with their cash and carry approach to picking up stray children whenever they go on hols...

just one question - if a letter of permission is produced, how do they prove it really IS from the dad and you haven't just knocked it up yourself?

I don't understand Mojomamma: did this happen in the UK? You generally don't see UK immigration prior to boarding a flight - you see them after disembarking from a flight and arriving in the UK. Are you sure it wasn't airport security you saw?

TBH, the official sounds OTT so YANBU. I agree with the principles behind him asking but to ask for a letter of permission from the father - like that wouldn't be easy to forge!! It would suffice to say, is this child your son/daughter and for you to reply either yes or no. If the child looked uneasy or frightened or like he/she had never seen you in your life, then he would be entitled to take further action IMHO.

YANBU at all. And I think Frog's point about the govt. abolishing the child in parent's passport system is very important. And her idea about it being simpler to put a note in the child's and parent's passports linking the two would be far better than this officious and insulting questioning.

The current system is wrong because it is prejudiced against people who have a different surname from their own children. Who are, largely, women, so it's discriminatory as well. (Esp. as I believe parents who abduct children tend to be male.)

It is also wrong that one parent is required to have a 'letter of permission' from the other - as if the parent who isn't travelling is the one in charge in some way and the other is controlled by them.

When flying from Nyk to London I had to have notarised permission from DH to leave the country with DS.

Completely reasonable in my opinion.

DH, DD and I have the same surname and we've had this, so YAB a bit U I think.
Fortunately, when I was travelling alone with DD, DH was with us at the check-in desk, so he wrote a letter there and then. I wouldn't have thought of it otherwise.

YANBU. I find UK passport control can be really abrupt and jobsworthy about this, and it's always a bit of a shock to me.

...contrast it with the passport woman at Hook of Holland port recently, who asked me if it was ok to give my dds a sweetie, then asked them in a chatty way where they were going and who they were going with, and then told them to have a fun trip!!

...but then of course in this country we can't manage anything without being shouted at by some officious arsehole. In fact if officials were polite and kindly, we'd all be off to the old Hell-In-A-Handcart, now wouldn't we

The root of this (from the UK side, at least) is based on the child abduction laws. If a child has two parents with Parental Responsibility, and there's no Residency Order in place, then you are required to gain permission from both parents before removing a child from the UK even for a holiday. There are exemptions for where the other parent is uncontactable, or you could apply to court before the holiday for approval.

If you've got a Residency Order then you can take them on holiday for up to four weeks without permission from the other parent.

I disagree with those who say this isn't a sexism thing, though. A father travelling with his children is much more likely to be stopped and questioned than a mother.

well, it's very eye-opening. For the record - if i used "twerp" or "jobsworth" it's merely an indicator of how annoyed i was AFTER the cosy chat we had - i am, as a rule, pretty reasonable and polite. what i'm not is patient when systems make no sense: as some have pointed out, apart from a notarised letter,/a paper trail (espec in case od deceased father/partner), letters are easily forged surely.

also, what does the biometric passport actually do? anyone shed any light? this was what i presumed took the place of carrying birth certs etc?

am v shocked that the idea of "travelling alone" as mentioned re:canada i think - do we need to be chaperoned these days?

and to whoever mentioned it - of course i care about child abduction - how thoughtless of you to suggest otherwise - surely enough people posting very different experiences (as i explained - it was the inconsistency throughout the week that was as susrprising as the actual exchange itself) can help you see the inherent problems with the current "system".

anyway, thanks for your honesty - i will def carry more docs in future - still not bloody asking "permission" to take my child anywhere! much prefer idea of acknowledgment as suggested by someone - thanks.

p.s. to clarify - it wasn't in the uk

I second what Sprogger said in a previous post. I was asked to sign an autorisation form in order for DH to be allowed add our children to his passport (He is from a Northafrican country) Even though we are married and all share the same surname.

go on, tell, mojo-

was it France?

..or the US?

This quite informative

As an expat I have seen press releases on the regulations in place about lone parent travel and is it was made very clear that I need written permission from DH even if I want to take dd back the UK for a weekend. Course - can't find the thing now.

I always love it when people get tied up in semantics and get all airiated about silly things.

Carrying a letter that says "I am aware that my child is leaving the country for X long and do not object" is only different to carrying one that says "I have given my permission for my child to be out of the country for X long" in your head. What a silly silly thing to split hairs over. It makes no practical difference, the end result is the same and it is not noted anywhere who had permission and who had acknowledgement so it does not do anything for anyones "rights".

If a different word is all that is needed to validate you feminine rights or some such twadle then you have bigger problems than the UK border force.

I think it is to avoid that (god forbid this happens to any of you)you "kidnap" your own children in the event of separation with husband or partner. I have read a lot of stories with one of the parents taking their children back to their country of origine (not only father phenomenon, mothers do it as well) and leaving very little chance of access to the other parent.

should have said any of US rather than any of you.

In what way were you detained and questioned?

• Were you removed from the queue and taken somewhere to be asked? Or did it take place in the queue?
• For how long were you questioned?
• What was his manner and attitude?

It is the job of the passport control to ensure people are who they say they are and are being taken out of the country for the right reasons.

DD has my name and is the image of me, and we have only ever travelled abroad as a family so me and DH present. Even so when we travel she is almost always her if she is "x", and ask her old she is. They will often ask her where she is going/where she has been. I assume this is to check she is who we say she is and to check she is ok, rather than just general chit chat. She is 7y so can obviously answer for herself. Wth a 14m old they need to ask the parents.

So if it wasn't in the Uk, why the feck is everyone slagging off the UK Immigration Agency?

i've been asked it,if it bothered me that much i'd change my name to that of the children or vice versa-i have one child with my surname and one who doesn't have my surname,i travelled with both the children alone and was asked if the baby was mine-i didn't find this offensive at all.

that sounds eminently sensible, Hula.

Noname, I think you mean to refer to feminist rights. And use of language is important, otherwise the N word and the P word would still be seen as acceptable.

can anyone clarify the biometric issue pls? what does it actually do? thanks

p.s. i agree re: language, edam

thanks, Mojo.

I would be pissed off if any official or anyone else suggested I needed permission from dh to do anything. And I'd be equally pissed off if anyone suggested he needed my permission, either. We are both adults, both ds's parents, we discuss things of course but there's no question of permission from either side.

It's got nothing to do with feminist rights, it's about being a parent. I am a parent in my own right, not just as one half of dh and I. I feel the same about giving dh permission to take our kids abroad. Why? They are his too. Just proof that I am aware of it should be enough.