in thinking that if we have monthly income of £3700 net we could spare £120 to spend on a cleaner?

[effedorf]

3+ years posting here, namechange for obvious reasons.

But, seriously, what do you think?

The income all comes from dh and I am sahm. We have two primary school age children. I truly hate cleaning and I do 95% of the food shopping and cooking and 100% of the laundry and 95% of all the other things that makes a family tick over.

Or am I being unreasonable?

I agree with that oojimaflip.

The most undiplomatic guy I know holds a very senior position - doesn't seem to have held him back at all.

I didn't write that, and if that is what you understood, I suggest you reread my post.

You are unwilling to accept the concept of conflict of interest between work and family, and constantly talk about childcare solutions as if they were easy and painless to implement. That is misleading and unhelpful in my opinion.

Anyway, I must tear myself away for my physio appointment.

www.xkcd.com/386/

GET A CLEANER!!

Bonsoir: I have stated quite a few times on this thread that all family and work life involves compromise. I don't accept that work necessarily involves a conflict of interest with family. It certainly can do, but that doesn't mean it has to. There are too many variable in every individual situation to state as a fact that work + family = conflict of interest. Far too simplistic.

I certainly don't think childcare solutions are always 'easy' to implement - DH and I spent a lot of time and thought arranging things for our three dcs - and considerable expense. I do, however, think that things have improved greatly over recent years with more accessible childcare. Again, it's meaningless to make sweeping statements, because what works for one family doesn't necessarily work for another.

And no, I don't accept that you didn't mean what I suggested. I think your post saying that interesting and fulfilling jobs which don't involve huge amounts of travel and which don't involve a conflict of interest with family just aren't senior (in the gospel according to Bonsoir anyway) was PRECISELY an attempt to put down the many MNers who combine senior positions with being a parent very effectively.

Why do you want to rewrite what I wrote violethill, and then get angry with what I didn't say?

Bonsoir:
'Interesting, responsible jobs where there is no travel element are very rare however, and I certainly don't know anyone in a job I would term "senior" who could or would take a whole day off work for a sick child. An hour out for a doctor's visit, perhaps.'

'But the main point about senior jobs is that they entail a lot of responsibilities towards the organisation/external parties that means that other (eg family) commitments have to take second place.'

Two examples of your posts which make it quite clear that you don't consider any job to be senior unless it means being in work when your child is sick, or continually putting family in second place. Clear attempt to put down the many MNers who hold senior positions and put their family first.

I don't understand how this thread has managed to get on to the subject of what Bonsoir feel to be a Senior job!
If the only interesting/ worthwhile jobs are those in a Senior position in the private sector and the only jobs acceptable to a mother are those which fit between 9.30-3pm, term time only, then indeed we may have a problem finding a suitable job.
However, most of us inhabit the real world where not everyone has 'senior positions' as defined by one avid Mumsnetter. Life is about making choices and accepting the consequences. We can all find excuses for not doing things that we don't really feel like doing and pretend to ourselves that it is impossible, we are too busy, we already work hard or whatever.

Well maybe we have a completely different view of what a senior job is, violethill.

I have spent 13 years of my life working in consulting or education of senior managers, so I do have some insight into what those jobs entail.

Exactly Bonsoir.

What you do is senior, what the rest of us do is either not senior, or a conflict of interest with our family

To be honest, what you (or Violet) or anyone else feels to be a 'Senior' Position is fairly irrelevant. Each family has to make their own individual decision, taking into account all their circumstances (of which others are often unaware). Your last post is such an OBVIOUS attempt at a 'put down'. I find it a little surprising that someone like yourself, with 13 years educating senior managers should find school applications 'A LOT of work'.

No, I don't do a senior job (I have very little responsibility over the year, just occasional - though totally unflexible - responsibilities). But I do mix (personally and professionally) with people with a lot of professional responsibilities.

Schools in France do no marketing (so you have to do all your own research) and the private and state sectors are (surprisingly) impenetrable to one another at lycée application level. So there is a lot of work involved (I am not talking about filling about forms).

Well hopefully, Bonsoir, you are still able to enjoy your job, proving that the same may be possible for other MNetters, whether or not their position is 'Senior'.

I think I find it just about as interesting as cleaning, actually! There are good financial reasons for working a little, but if I won the lottery I wouldn't bother - I'm one of Christina Odone's 88%

Yes, I guess all of us would have a rethink of our life in general if we were fortunate to win the lottery. If that were the OP's situation, I guess she wouldn't have needed to post on MN either!

Funnily enough, while I can easily give working outside the home a miss, I doubt I'll ever never want to clean

Well, you are the opposite to me but that's what makes the world an interesting place

This all seems to be getting a bit carried away. But I'm with Kitty on this one I think!

This argument about senior jobs is silly. Anyone with a job that inflexible senior would surely earn a decent salary and have more suitable childcare in place ie nanny. There has to a choice involved in that somewhere as to priorities.

Both DH and I have management level positions. He travels a lot for work. Fortunately I don't have to. We manage perfectly well without a cleaner at the mo (though have had one in the past), and the afterschool/holidays clubs that are so thoughtfully provided by the LEA. If my child is sick, I work from home or take holiday.

My particular role gives me the flexibility to do this as work tends be about meeting deadlines rather than being at my desk all day. (rather than my level in the food chain) Some jobs obviously can't allow this as you need to be physically present, be that as a Surgeon or a checkout operator. I guess the former has a bigger choice of how to manage flexible childcare. The latter is probably a bit stuffed if no friends/family on hand to help.

Sometimes though, emergencies crop up don't they, and some jobs are more flexible than others.
Sadly, if you have a lot of responsibilities to other staff, clients etc you have little flexibility.

I recenetly went to a meeting with a number of senior people in the publishing and telly industry ( not me btw, I'm the very un-senior writer). One woman had clearly had a dire morning with personal stuff and should have cancelled...but, that would have been extraordinarily difficult because the meeting would either have to be cancelled, thus pissing off the rest of us - some had travelled from abroad, and I know I had moved hell and high water to get child care in fecking half term. Or she could not have come thus letting down her company.

It was very tricky for her and she chose to come.

Exactly, Litchick.

Porto - you've hit the nail on the head. When you have to physically be there, the problems arise.
When I was a lawyer I would feel absolutely awful if a conflict arose between my own children or the children I was representing. Who do you chose to let down?

I have a very senior job and I would take time off to look after my children if they were sick

well my cleaner has just left. Two hours a week so costs me about £120 and I'm a stay at home mum with an income of a lot less than the op so ner nerdy ner ner sucks boo

WMFD - don't you find there are times when you just can't?

I remember DS getting ill the night before a case I had been working on for over a year.
It was awful.
Do I get someone else to do the case? Someone who has never met the client and knows absolutely nothing about the facts.

It's not always possible to re-arrange things at short notice.