in thinking that if we have monthly income of £3700 net we could spare £120 to spend on a cleaner?

[effedorf]

3+ years posting here, namechange for obvious reasons.

But, seriously, what do you think?

The income all comes from dh and I am sahm. We have two primary school age children. I truly hate cleaning and I do 95% of the food shopping and cooking and 100% of the laundry and 95% of all the other things that makes a family tick over.

Or am I being unreasonable?

Total shoes off household here, and still carpets get messy. Two cats, though, and cream carpets, so a tad anal about them....

Actually, now that I think about it, the thing that seems to be in my Hoover bag most often is long black hair - oh, that would be me shedding. Best thing about being pregnant, as far as I was concerned, was not sropping hair everywhere. Am making myself sound like a Yeti....

I have a cleaner help me out for 2 hours every week as i am heavily pregnant and can't lift a hoover around anymore or bend down. We have a no shoes in the house rule so the carpets don't get too dirty and she helps clean the bathroom. I can maintain a clean toilet and a tidy house/kitchen so don't think we need more than 2 hours of help a week. 12 hours of help sounds definitely more housekeeperish.

I am also confused by the income thingy. If you have £3700 net, is this before or after mortgage, council tax, insurance, car costs, electricity, Sky, telephone, gas etc? If so then spend it on what you like, if not then you need to see how much you have left after all bills and living costs (food, kids clothes, savings etc) and if you can afford an extra £120 then spend it. If not, do the housework yourself.

Wow, Bonsoir, maybe I'm a slattern then - do you think it makes a real difference having house cleaned 3x a week? I guess house must always look pristine rather than getting in need of a clean towards end of the week....

Am slightly disturbed that I'm getting quite so into a conversation about cleaning....!

You get 50% of the cost of your cleaner reimbursed by the taxman in France!

Damn the Inland Revenue here in the UK! I can't even offset my childcare costs, let alone anything else....

lolol at inevitable wall washing! I don't remember fighting my way through the smog last time I was in Paris. Or do you just have a lot of food fights?

Cleaning kitchen surfaces every day is just part of cleaning up after cooking, like loading the dishwasher.I don't even think of it as 'cleaning'.

I'd love a cleaner three times a week - we would be so much more tidy.

My MOL and my sister's MIL have had daily cleaners all their lives, at the very least. My MOL's apartment is clean, though it suffers from wear-and-tear at the edges (if you don't do your own cleaning you don't see the decorations aging); my sister's MIL's apartments and houses are absolutely filthy. I think that whether a house is clean or not really depends on the owner's standards, not the regularity of the outsourcing of cleaning. I've had some really bad cleaners in my time, who would happily been paid FT to do f* all.

i am currently supposed to be cleaning my house, as we can't afford to and my pride wouldn't let me have a cleaner. But instead I am on MN, procrastinating.

I'm off to do the hoovering

I hereby apologise to all I have affronted by posting net income. Sorry that you find it so offensive.

I repeat what I said earlier:

"I know the score with incomes and that is why I posted in disguise. I know it is frowned upon and coarse and I don't talk about it in rl (and also am fully aware that £3700 net is a truly piffling amount to some of my fellow esteemed mumsnetters!) but I just want to get the bald facts out in black and white, and not aibu by stealth either.

Its ok, I don't mind the abuse. You would never be able to guess who I am in my normal posting name."

Unfortunately I outed myself by not switching back to my namechange yesterday - but c'est la vie. As always, dear posters, its been an education.

Whoever keeps saying this is trollish - would you kindly shut it?

OP - have you decided to get a cleaner, though???

If you like anywhere in Surrey, I can give you a good recommendation for mine - lovely Brazilian student (dual EU nationality, so perfectly legal) - fantastic cleaner, with fabulous references

lol bibbity! So have you hired someone yet?

We had cleaners for a few years, great if you get a good one, however our first was a mad elderly Irish lady who stormed out when we started building an extension, the second was two young girls who fell out with each and kept bringing their children around and the third was good when she turned up but often didnt with no notice, so I decided to put the money into a 'holiday fund' and pay for a holiday every year.

Although the house is quite big I really dont mind doing it, it is very satisfying sipping a drink on a sun lounger thinking that this came out of the 'cleaners account'.

One thing I hated though was ironing OH's shirts so they go already washed to a laundry place (£12 for 14 shirts) which I think is good value for money!

Thats the bathrooms done

Oh, the stories I can tell about rubbish cleaners. How about the one who ran up a £500+ phonebill calling her boyfriend in Australia for an hour every week? Or the one who I found sitting on my sofa having a fag whilst her daughter and her two teenage friends were upstairs in my bedroom trying on my clothes? Or just one who clearly had some eyesight issues and never spotted the enormous spiders webs that have a habit of growing, oh, everywhere, in our house?

The lesson is get references, and when you find a good one, treat her well. My rules are: when I get my annual pay review, so does my cleaner, she gets presents for birthday and Christmas (and pretty nice ones), leave your house in a decent state for her to clean properly, never ask her to do something that you wouldn't want to clean up yourself, pay her extra if there is more mess than usual (eg post-parties), pay her holiday money when you're on hols and don't need a clean, and never ask for change if you can't pay exact change yourself. To me that's just basic good manners, but I'm always amazed at how badly some of my friends treat their cleaners...

done and dusted!

Depends on your priorities. We have a bigger monthly income than that but there is no way we would elect to spend £150 of it on a cleaner when I can do it myself.

Nostrila said "When I was a SAHM I was the person who volunteered at pre-school, heard kids read at school and helped out on school trips."

Well I'm a SAHM too and I have plenty of time to help out in school etc and clean. I also have time to go to the gym and enjoy a bit of "me" time.
It would be nice not to have to clean I suppose. However I would rather buy more clothes or save put money towards more holidays than pay someone to clean.

Is cleaning really tax deductible in France- like an allowable expense?! Is that the case even if you are not self- employed or employed? Do the French have v high standards of cleanliness? I thought it was the British who were more house proud.

Have not read the mahoosive thread...but OP, can see you have had an issue name changing. Oops.

YANBU

YANBU for posting your household income..who honestly cares?
YANBU for wanting a cleaner if you hate cleaning

I have a cleaner and it makes me very happy. If someone was to make me choose between spending £40 on a cleaner once a week or spending £40 on a babysitter/ night out at the cinema, the cleaner would win hands down everytime.

Nothing beats walking into your house and someone else has done the big clean. Especially when the bulk of everything else falls to you.

YANBU. Go for it!

Message withdrawn

Yes, a domestic cleaner is tax deductible! Every foyer fiscal (taxable household - married couples are taxed jointly in France) has an annual allowance (I think it is a minimum of 12,000 euros, but it increases the more children you have) that it can spend on domestic cleaning, childcare, home tutoring etc (basically any service that takes place at home) and you recoup 50% of your expenditure on your tax bill. So basically you can end up spending 6,000 for 12,000 euros of services paid for. Of course, that means that everything has to be above board, NI etc paid.