To think my sister is selfish for choosing not to breast feed?

[IHateWinter]

She hasn't even had her baby yet but has already decided that she doesn't want to try it and if she does she'll only do it for a month at most.

I've told her that breast milk is healthier and gives the baby antibodies etc, but she won't listen to me. I gave her a baby book that explains why breast is best but she won't read that either.

What else can I say? I worry about my future neice. I understand that she many not want to carry on doing it for a long time, but I really do feel that if you have a baby you have the responsibility to try and give it the best start in life. I really feel she is more concerned about what her breasts will look like than her babies needs.

I'm suprised by how strongly I feel. I find myself avoiding her in case I end up saying something upsetting. Am I being unreasonable?

Oh, and before anyone says, I AM NOT A TROLL I am a regular poster who has name changed.

I'm going to have to give up on analogies - people take them far more literally than I intend them.

Really not trying to offend, apologies again.

Wait until Lent, Annie, and give up analogies then - much easier than giving up chocolate!

Not a bad idea, Stayingscarygirl, except for the slight catch that I'm Jewish and don't do Lent!

Stayingscary - lots of research from western contexts, including a no. studies in the UK, that show increased risk of infections among ff babies, after controlling for other factors.

Try googling Dundee cohort study infant feeding; or look at this from the Millennium cohort study: pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/119/4/e837

So, suddenly, tiktok, we seem to have studies that say rather more than the noble prof, indeed that seem to contradict his (real) words that the evidence for the effects of breastfeeding in areas such as asthma and allergies is more controversial.

But, there again, as you say, we have a duty to do the best for the health of our children. So we must obviously heed all these studies. Just as, presumably, we should heed the studies that show that vaccination against common childhood diseases is of paramount importance. Just think how effective the whooping cough vaccine is in preventing a terrible respiratory disease. The link would appear to be far more proven than any showing that bfing prevents respiratory diseases. Just think how far fewer midwives, breast feeding advisors and so forth the UK could afford if it had to deal with outbreaks of polio.

Of course, there are people, including some MNers, who appear to have very genuine fears about the effects of childhood vaccinations. Indeed who even refuse to let their children have them. But as we, the widely read experts, know that the overwhelming majority of scientists working in this field support vaccinations then such refusniks are, what was it that whitecat said? - 'moral illiterates' - that's right isn't it? Some people might think that term sounds incredibly sanctimonious, even insulting and offensive, but really, we have a duty to do the best to protect the children in our care, and that means if the studies say do it then mothers should jolly well follow suit.

YABU

What's it got to do with you? You're not the baby's mum.

My DS is fine and he was FF.

I intend to BF next baby, but I can tell you now, no one will be telling me how to feed my baby.

It's not the end of the world to FF a baby. It's not like she's abusing it FFS.

And you name changed because you knew you'd get eaten alive.

I do, as it happens TAUP know quite a few people on MMNet outside of mumsnet as well. And yes i expected strong reactions. This is AIBU after all. I got my advice, and I've taken it. End of.

'End of'? You're right, this is AIBU, hense us all being entitled to our opinions.

Quite right, didn't mean that TAUP, I'm being unecessarily cranky now. Think I need to get to bed early tonight! Sorry

Don't worry, I'm cranky tonight too, feel like squeezing something cute and fluffy.. bed time me thinks..

bellissima - ??

The study linked to is about respiratory infection (and gastroenteritis), not asthma and allergies?

also - your vaccination point isn't really relevant to this thread, it's a completely different issue. I'm not saying any more other than that I am generally pro vaccines.

Thanks, Annie. I'm glad I don't have to feel guilty in your book. That makes all the difference.

I'm getting a bit lost with your unpleasant tone, belissima - did you not read the links I suggested? They were about gastro and other infections, in answer to another poster's question about western babies and formula feeding.

I agree with Prof Kramer (why wouldn't I? He's only one of the world's leading researchers in the area of infant feeding!) that the evidence for allergy and asthma links with infant feeding is far from strong. I have often said as much on mumsnet. I don't think it matters - the much clearer links with other conditions are sufficient to back a clear public health impetus in favour of support for breastfeeding.

I have never said we have a 'duty' to do the best for our children - that is so not something I would ever say.

I am lost in your vaccination argument and don't see the connnection, sorry.

Sabire I love this 'Have now got a slightly fat arse and tummy to go with good cleavage, but I think at 43 you do sometimes have to choose between baggy slimness or being pneumatically plump.'

Me too but I'm only 27

Sorry but as soon as the pro-bfers start mentioning 'public health' (tik tok) and the fact that everyone should do everything for the health of their child then they stray beyond bfing and into other arenas that have major repercussions for children's health and development and where many of the arguments - notably scientific surveys versus personal experience, and indeed individual freedoms to decide what is best for one's child - are exactly the same.

For the record I too am pro-vaccines (if you read another thread I would really really like my asthmatic child to get a SF vaccine asap) just as I am pro-bfing. But I recognise that many people have doubts and fears about vaccinations and I would never, ever try and lecture, hector or cajole them by, for example, pointing out that the vast majority of scientific surveys support vaccines, it's good for 'public health' - after all every unvaccinated child reduces herd immunity and all that - and that they really must do their best for the good of their child. I would never suggest that their own personal experiences are invalid or that their views need 'adjusting' (how pleasant or tolerant is that phrase?).

In short, feel free when it comes to opining about the pros and cons of bfing to say exactly what you like, but MYOB when it comes to trying to cajole others into adopting a procedure just because you have - or you may find exactly the same kind of arguments used in an arena in which you feel less comfortable.

I have never said 'everyone should do everything for their health of their child'. I don't believe it, so I wouldn't say it.

I mentioned the public health situation to contrast it with the inability of research to 'prove' any direct cause of ill health in any individual baby. I have re-read my post, and it's perfectly clear that is what I meant. I wasn't 'straying' beyond breastfeeding into 'other arenas' - it was you trying to link it with vaccination.

I have never suggested personal experience is invalid. I did point out that research actually looks at lots of personal experience (of breastfeeding and saggy breasts) and concludes that breastfeeding is not a factor - but even that will not account for every individual's experience, or, indeed, their feelings about their experience.

The dundee and millenium cohort studies are based on questionnaires, neither take into account living conditions (damp e.t.c.) or nursery care and many, many other complicated factors which can majorly influence incidences of resp/gastro illness in babies. I don't believe they are particularly reliable in their conclusions. They are attempts to prove a theory about feeding rather than investigate the effects of ff/bf.

"Sorry but as soon as the pro-bfers start mentioning 'public health'"

Infant feeding is a public health issue, just like later childhood nutrition is.

Otherwise how could the government justify spending millions of pounds on initiatives to improve breastfeeding rates?

Like it or not, more bf in a society = better infant and child health at a population level.

sabire - because they spend millions giving free formula to poor people maybe?

Or am I just cynical...?

I think there are complicated issues tied up in the feeding issue. There are issues around education, poverty e.t.c. sabire is correct, feeding is a public health issue, apologies for the smart comment. I think perhaps not a public health issue in some of the ways people think.

Possibly one of the bigger public health issues to do with feeding is that some HCP now believe that the over-sterilisation of feeding equipment that goes along with bottle-feeding is causing allergy reactions and poor immune systems in children.

tiktok - can I ask you a question about the protection against gastro and respiratory problems? Does any protection from bf only last whilst the bf continues or will it give some protection throughout childhood even when bf has stopped?

I initially mixed bf and ff with my ds but now at 5mths he is ff only. Will he still have some of the protection from my breastmilk?

Fine. Baby nutrition is a public health issue. Along with child nutrition, vaccinations, take up of health care provision and so forth. In each, as I said, many of the arguments used by advocates of one approach versus another - notably scientific surveys versus personal experience, and indeed individual freedoms to decide what is best for one's child - are exactly the same.

So don't single out one issue on which to lecture and persuade people and then get surprised when someone points out that the logical conclusion of your stance in related public health areas is something with which you might not feel exactly comfortable. Possibly reinforces the message that, whilst we are all free to express opinions, when it comes to judging and controlling people (in the manner which the OP has now dropped I should say) it's best to MYOB.

I think you're being unreasonable - and I bf my dc.

Please don't pressure her this way, as it is not for everyone and its not easy .. remember .....dont make her feel guilty for having a choice.