To think my sister is selfish for choosing not to breast feed?

[IHateWinter]

She hasn't even had her baby yet but has already decided that she doesn't want to try it and if she does she'll only do it for a month at most.

I've told her that breast milk is healthier and gives the baby antibodies etc, but she won't listen to me. I gave her a baby book that explains why breast is best but she won't read that either.

What else can I say? I worry about my future neice. I understand that she many not want to carry on doing it for a long time, but I really do feel that if you have a baby you have the responsibility to try and give it the best start in life. I really feel she is more concerned about what her breasts will look like than her babies needs.

I'm suprised by how strongly I feel. I find myself avoiding her in case I end up saying something upsetting. Am I being unreasonable?

Oh, and before anyone says, I AM NOT A TROLL I am a regular poster who has name changed.

joanne I'm not sure how you can appeal to peoples need for scientific proof and research to support their decision to bf or not. Everybody knows deep down that the best thing is to do what nature intended. In reality it's just common sense. It would be like saying to people it would be more healthy to take vitamins instead of eating vegetables, nobody would believe that who had any common sense, it's ludicrous, however, for those who do not eat enough veg and fruit, of course taking vitamins is a safe and effective alternative. I think it's the same with bf. Breast milk is designed by nature to be the perfect food for babies, not just in humans but in all animals. That's why cows milk is best for calves and sheeps milk for lambs etc... breast milk has evolved to be the best food for babies. However, for those who make the decision for whatever reason, ff is a perfectly safe and effective alternative.
What I'm trying to say is that the type of people who like to read around a subject and research before making their decision surely realise that bf is the most natural food for a baby.
However I do agree that sometimes the messages you are given as a parent can come across in the wrong way making people feel patronized or presurised into following the party line. I think tiktok will agree that it must be virtually impossible to deliver classes on any aspect of parenting that would be tailored to everybody in the class. The best you can hope for is that you are presented with a range of options which you go away and find out more about before making your own decision.
Sadly not everybody has the time or inclination to go away and read up on a subject, for those people perhaps the message needs to be given more forcefully to make sure that the message goes in.

I cannot believe the utter snobbery that would lead someone to believe that their formula fed middle class baby was going to have better health outcomes than a working class breastfed baby.

I would love to hear someone say that to a midwife. 'Oh no, I don't need to breastfeed, my baby is going to be middle class. Being middle class gives my baby all the protection against illness it will ever need!"

Great post Sausagesupper

tiktok, there is proper help in the community (I have used it myself) it is just that you have to be motivated to seek it out and believe that it is worth doing.

From what you say (and also my experience) the public health campaigns have done their best.

I was not proposing hospital stays of more than one week - however from my group of friends I know a few people who are ff and their experience in hospital was, what I would describe as sub-standard, they described situations of midwives who did not have time to show them and therefore were stroppy and impatient. If people came out of hospital knowing how to, rates would probably go up - although it would mean you would be out of a job!

Ummm...which culture is it which believes in 100% bottle feeding? I am curious as I have a fairly diverse set of friends from different races and religions, and bf does not (to me) seem to split culturally. Given that there was no effective FF until the early 20th century, an aversion to bf must be a recent (historically) cultural norm!

AliGrylls - I posted about 5 million pages ago, but I'll repeat it, as I think there are some sectors of our culture to which FF is the norm, and BFing is considered disgusting.
In the late '60's, my MIL gave birth to my dh - the hospital she was in would not let her breastfeed. She was in hospital, all alone with her first baby, who was taken off to a nursery, and brought back to her when, and only when, he needed a feed - a formula feed that is. She was told that BFing would be bad for the baby, as he wouldn't possibly get enough nourishment from her.
Today, we wouldn't put up with that, but rewind 40ish years, people were in awe of authority, and what they said was the truth.
When I had my first baby, she did everything she could to persuade me to FF, as she was so sure I was going to make my DS ill by BFing him. If I had been her daughter, I would have listened to her.
So here we are in 2009, with a whole generation of mothers from certain hospitals (it can't be every hospital that had the BFing is bad attitude, but there must have been more than one) who will teach their daughters, and their daughters friends, and so on, that FF is the way to go.
As far as I can see, an aversion to BFing coincided with the FF manufacturers discovering that they could make a few bucks from vulnerable new mothers who didn't know any better.

AliGrylls - sorry, there really is not enough help in the community....whether it is sought out or not. You may be lucky enough to be in an area where there is, but this is not the case elsewhere.

I speak to mothers all the time from parts of the country where midwives are either thin on the ground or seem to be unaware of how best to support bf. Breastfeeding counsellors? A few hundred, for the whole of the UK.

Health visitors are woefully under-trained in bf support, and as for GPs....

I would be delighted if people came out of hospital confident and bf happily, with access to good help if it was needed later. I would be v. pleased to be 'out of a job' (I'm a volunteer..... )

I wont hold my breath, though

given that you haven't met every gp or hv it is erroneous to make sweeping generalisations about their competency

some are good
some are average
some are bad

When I had dc1, she had to go to special care straight after birth to monitor her blood sugar levels. Because I had made the decision to bf, I insisted no bottles were given, there were no problems with this and she was fed overnight with a cup. In the morning, one of the nurses spent a good half hour with me supporting me to latch her on and get going with feeding. I appreciate that I was lucky to have this individual support in a busy glasgow hospital. With dc2, the midwives let you get on with it tbh, but again no pressure to bf or ff and once I came out of hospital after c-section, the community midwife put me in touch with a bf counsellor who i chose to contact for a bit of support.
In both cases I see that I was lucky to have such easy access to such good quality support. It is not unique to my situation, there is excellent help out there, but it seems that this is a starting point, if everybody was as lucky as me, perhaps more people would be encouraged to persevere with bf. tiktok I would love to train as a bf counsellor or similar, do you have any info how to go about it?
but, I think that the biggest thing to change bf rates is for people to see it and for it to be accepted as being normal. My own mother did it, I just thought it was normal and never considered not doing it. I hope that my own kids will feel the same way, but there is so much pressure to ff. I am pregnant with dc3 and dc1 and 2 came home from pre-school asking me if we can buy bottles for the baby. They refuse to accept that babies do not always need a bottle. They now understand the "mummy milk" but think it comes out of my belly button into a bottle . We need to educate children on all levels and show them that bf is a natural thing to do with a baby, especially the kids who have never seen it before....
(climbs off soap box)

(gets back on soap box for a minute)
and why does every bloody baby doll have a bloody bottle to drink out of included in the set????????

I can't be arsed to read the whole thread but as someone who came to motherhood late (37), was a total party girl, wasted all weekend, took too many drugs, was basically as selfish as they come, I STILL knew that bfing was the way to go when I had my first DC. It wasn't easy (she refused expressed milk point blank so I was the ONLY one to feed her till she was about 9 months old) but I could not imagine not at least trying. TBH the first two weeks were the hardest but I felt I had to do it and in the end I loved it.
Funnily enough DC2 just wasn't interested in boob..she really wasn't.

Maybe the reason I knew it was the only intelligent choice waas because I'm a qualified nurse. There is just no argument for not at least trying..something that the OP's sister is at prepared to do.
Let her see how it goes and give her loads of support. I had my mother who told me "sshe's feeding too much. Maybe you've not got enough milk. Give her some formula....yawn fucking yawn.

If you are talking to me, scottishmummy, I am not making any sweeping generalisations about HVs' or GPs' competence. This was perfectly clear in my post.

I was talking about their training, which I happen to know about, and both professions are undertrained in breastfeeding support.

initial undergraduate training isnt same as post qualifying or self lead training and interests

do bf counsellor have a regulatory body
do they have to demonstrate accredited cpd
the title bf counsellor is unregulated it isnt protected so anyone could set up and use it
how do bf trainers regulate and ensure accurate educational attainment

i could set up tomorrow as bf counsellor

I don't know what your point is, scottishmummy.

Training for GPs and HVs in breastfeeding is poor. The HVs own profesional body recognise this. I don't know if GPs' have official recognition of it. There is some post-reg training in bf, certainly, which they can choose to access if they wish.

The name breastfeeding counsellor is unregulated, but if someone calls themselves an 'NCT breastfeeding counsellor' this is legally protected - I have a regulatory body, I have compulsory CPD in order to remain registered each year and have to satisfy certain requirements (supervision, for instance); bf trainers (tutors) are also counsellors themselves and follow the same rules. In addition, tutors are regulated, supervised and have annual compulsory CPD. Qualifications are externally accredited.

I am saying this to clarify - I have no idea if I am answering whatever point you made.

I am aware that I can't call myself doctor or health visitor. This does not mean the people who do have good training in or knowledge of breastfeeding.