To think that Julia Hollander who put her severely brain damaged daughter into care did the right thing

[pigletmania]

I have just picked up this weeks Pick Me Up magazine and have read the brave story of a woman Called Julia Hollander and her husband who put their daughter Imeogen who has severe brain damage into care as they could not cope. The daughter is now thriving and doing so well in the care of Tania a professional carer. They are still a part of their daughters life and are involved in decision making regarding aspects of her life.

When this couple spoke out about their story they recieved a lot of bad press and was unfairly vilified by people on Mumsnet who if they have not been in that situation have no idea what this couple are going through. They put their daughter into Tanias care so that she would have a better life, this in itself is very selfless and putting their daughter first.

There are thousands of Tania equivalents out there

They did try, whether they tried for 5 months or 50 years, they decided they couldn't cope. They turned her over to social services as there wasn't any other way to get the help they needed. They were told (as I was) that Imogen would never feel or learn, not just walk or talk. The only experience they had of Imogen, was a very very unhappy/uncomfortable baby. I imagine they thought that was how she would be forever, I can understand why they thought they couldn't cope with her.

SS don't give anything to us without a huge fight, they wouldn't have got any help at that stage

I believe JH never bonded with Imogen, not that she is an ogre. I didn't feel my daughter was mine until at least a month after birth, up til that point she was the hospitals (it felt) I was lucky, mine was a placid sleepy baby, I don't know how I would have coped with her diagnosis/prognosis if she was as high maintenance as Imogen

Very few people have this kind of negative start to parenting a child and this is why I can relate to JH and be more understanding

I have been down this road as have loads of parents I know...
weirdly none have abandoned their child and then written a book about it.

I wish people would try to understand:

that noone on this thread is blaming Julia Hollander for failing to bond with her daughter

noone is blaming her for needing to grieve for the child she thought she would have

in short, noone is blaming her for failing to cope

what people are blaming her for is expecting praise for her failure to cope

and for various utterly tasteless revelations that seem to show that to her, Imogen as a person is far less important than Julia as a symbol of brave suffering

Well actually some people have said how could she do that, I would never do that, she is a bad person, why is she allowed to keep her other children.

But, yes, it is pretty much unanimously disapproved of that she is making money out of it.

Some people cannot cope with disability, there will always be people like that, the same way there will always be racists and homophobics and any other term you want to use, that is just the way it is.
but to then use your failings as a parent as a way to make money is sick and in poor taste.
fine if she didn't want to keep her baby, that is her loss... but why all the "selling" why not just keep quiet.

People try to justify their failures in order to shore up their sense of being an okay person.

I wonder if Julia has spun an identity for herself that makes all this bearable.

Perhaps all of us view parts of our lives through deceptive eyes.

Unmasking someone and judging their motives is always going to cause pain. You wonder who benefits, especially if the truth doesn't result in new self-awareness and then a new approach to taking responsibility.

I think you're right, blueywhite, I do think part of the whole publicity thing is therapeutic for her. If even a few people publicly say, no it's OK, you're not a bad person, then she feels vindicated. And that could get quite addictive.

One word
Vanity

there is a story in the express about her btw from may in which shesays about the criticism she has received on parenting forums and....well I will cut and paste it. It is still about her

here it is

"?Writing the book gave me a meditative space to make sense of what happened,? she says. However there has been intense criticism over her decision to write about Imogen, with some people accusing Julia of making money from her daughter?s plight.

?The advance from the book only covered the cost of child care while I wrote it,? she says.

Parenting websites and radio chat shows have also accused Julia of selfishly abandoning her child.

?The criticism left me feeling battered but nothing will compare to the grief I feel over Imogen.

?I constantly question the quality of her life and the mourning for what might have been never really ends.""

I don't know what other people think, but it says to me she is still bothered by this perfect child she did not have, and will never have. Again it is about her and how she feels about this lack of perfection. It does not reflect any sense of guilt of what her and her husbands actions have been like. Its eems like a total lack of self awareness to me. Oh well

I had my psychotherapy on a concession scheme riven, but you still have to pay but it is alot cheaper

of course she hasn't got over it, she hasn't giot her child with her,if she had kept her she would have learnt in time to love her,or at least accept her. but by abandoning her she has never really got to know the child(hate using her name as it seems intrusive) how can you move on if you don't first accept what has happened.

It's very sad though if it's true that Julia's mourning has never ended (as she says, from the quotes you've posted Angry).

Right, just to clarify something.

When I said before 'there are different types of disability and SN' (which I stand by) I didn't mean that one type means it's ok to abandon your child while another doesn't. I just meant that the health of the children, their suffering, their happiness, their abilities, their difficulties, the threat to their life-- all these issues vary hugely & this surely must affect the mourning process for a parent. I suspect Imogen's situation was very difficult making the mourning process for the parents very hard. In other sorts of SN you don't even know at the beginning, so of course it's more gradual (at least from what I've seen from friends around me).

Manny, I have to admit I'm pissed off at your rudeness in saying I show 'amazing ignorance' and my comments are 'inane'. I think the whole tone in this thread has been ok... and people have been trying to get their heads around a difficult topic. Just to clarify- in case it wasn't clear, which I think it was: when I was talking about antenatal testing/scanning my argument was that the purpose of these tests is not to be able to abort / not abort. The purpose is to have medical info about how the pregnancy's going. Do you disagree with this? If so, I suspect we won't find any common ground anyway

I think, very simply, that if someone has made up their mind to not abort in any case (perfectly OK choice to make) then what's the problem with knowing beforehand whatever you can know? You can be better prepared, which surely helps the mourning process / helps with the possible shock or whatever. I'd love to hear what others who have chosen not to test/scan think about this (not just Manny).

(As for religious reasons of not testing/scanning, that's something I'm not at all familiar with on a personal level since I'm not religious myself & I don't see in any case what religion has to do with getting medical info about your pregnancy).

Maria2007, I think it is sad she has not got over that first hurdle too, especially as she is a mature and educated woman. But I also think unless you have lived the reality of this, which alot of us have, it is difficult to understand how awful this is. Her daughter was not less of a child because of her disability, she was still the same child - she is who she is. Having children is hard. No-one ever said it was a walk in the park. But I don't think the feminists burned their bras and fought to care for their own disabled children at home so they were not forced into adoption would be very impressed with a woman who has abandoned her responsibilities and made use of her 'contacts' in order to make a quick buck.

Fwiw aswell, I have worked in the care sector and there are not 'thousands' of Tanias. There may be thousands of foster carers, but they are not all like Tanis. Their 'daughter' has been very lucky in being placed with someone like Tania. I wonder though is a more realistio 6 homes by 8 situation would of made them less inclined to think they had made the right decision and flaunt the fact they think other people ought to do it too.

Angry, yes it's extremely sad that she didn't get over that first hurdle (and so the mourning continues), and as others have said I suspect the reason is that she didn't give herself time to accept the situation. I really think with time you come to bond with your child & accept the situation. Which I'm sure doesn't mean it's an easy situation by any means.

No, but is an easier situation emotionally? There is alot of coverage about terminating for down syndrome in the press over the last few days and yet of the articles I have read, the most positive ones are from the people who have had and kept their child. I think in order to become more educated we cannot just assume that not bringing up a disabled child is the best possible scenario. There is emotional trauma that can be very long lasting to having a termination of a much wanted child who happens to be disabled and there is obviously alot of emotional trauma to abandonment of a disabled child, else why the need to justify it and try to come to terms with it?

Who says who can and cannot cope? It is all a learning curve, one I am glad I have actualy been down. I get so much satisfaction out of all my children. My child who is disabled is just a child, that is all. Ten years on that pain HAS gone. Completely. I am proud of myself and her and my other children for that. Intellect has nothing at all to with it, nor does physical ability, they are still that person they were meant to be, they are still them. I am in no way religious either ! but I do believe in fate and I think people are just meant to be here. That does not change just because they are disabled in some way

'I suspect Imogen's situation was very difficult making the mourning process for the parents very hard. In other sorts of SN you don't even know at the beginning, so of course it's more gradual (at least from what I've seen from friends around me).'

oh, I seeeee and in your world, 'more gradual' = 'easier' !!!

What is it with you? How on earth could you possibly know what it is like to be told that your dc has a lifelong disability, will always need 1-1 care, will never lead an independent life and so on? How could you possibly think that this information is somehow easier for a parent to digest just because it is not forthcoming two seconds after birth? Why would the passage of a bit more time (during which clues that your child is not developing as expected still emerge anyway, they don't just appear overnight) mitigate the reality that your child has just been dx with a severe disability? I don't know whether to laugh or cry at your assumptions.

'I think, very simply, that if someone has made up their mind to not abort in any case (perfectly OK choice to make) then what's the problem with knowing beforehand whatever you can know?'

Or conversely, if someone has made up their mind to not abort in any case, then what is the point in testing?

I have to say, i think in alot of cases it is harder not knowing straight away. You go home from hospital with this perfectly 'normal' child. They will not feed, they will not sleep and everyone reassures you this is normal. So you think it is, you put off going back to work and you try to work through it, thinking you have underestimated how much work a baby is! Then this just goes on until some hardfaced paedatrician opens the ground from underneath you

angry thank you, a post from somebody with true understanding.

Yes, I took my ds home hoping he was OK (he was premature so I guess there's always a bit of worry) but he seemed OK....then the vomit started at a month or so...then not much eye contact or socialising....weaning problems....drowning in vomit...lack of interest in others and playing....and EVERYONE telling me, 'have you tried this or done that?'....looking back, it was all so obvious but at the time it was lots of worry and uncertainty.

There is never a good time to find out that your dc has severe problems but you just have to get on with it as best you can.

OK Manny I see you continue with the attacks (e.g. 'falls back backwards / what is it with you etc). Whatever. I really don't get your aggression, I think you're being deliberately rude & unpleasant. Not sure why as you don't know me. Also, I find your question 'how on earth could you possibly know what it is like' etc deeply offensive. You have no idea whatsoever what my interest / connection to this subject is. I, like everyone else writing on this thread, have an interest in the topic. I don't have to justify whether my interest is theoretical or based on my real life experience. Not everyone likes to disclose these things here. I've mentioned (very generally) that I'm close to particular people who have dealt with such situations. Not more I want to say here but as I said I find your attitude strange.

I was just trying to express some thoughts, that's all. And yes, more gradual can be easier (although not necessarily) for some people. For other people I'm sure more gradual can actually be harder. As I said. Just my thoughts.

As for the point in testing

(oops! conditions that the mum or child could have)...

...and I see from your further post Manny that you still are going on with your aggression ('a post from somebody with true understanding'). I really don't get it how some people act in a deliberately rude way just because they're writing on a screen & not talking face to face to someone. You know, it's a person you're talking to, hellllooooo???!!!