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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that Julia Hollander who put her severely brain damaged daughter into care did the right thing

465 replies

pigletmania · 23/10/2009 16:49

I have just picked up this weeks Pick Me Up magazine and have read the brave story of a woman Called Julia Hollander and her husband who put their daughter Imeogen who has severe brain damage into care as they could not cope. The daughter is now thriving and doing so well in the care of Tania a professional carer. They are still a part of their daughters life and are involved in decision making regarding aspects of her life.

When this couple spoke out about their story they recieved a lot of bad press and was unfairly vilified by people on Mumsnet who if they have not been in that situation have no idea what this couple are going through. They put their daughter into Tanias care so that she would have a better life, this in itself is very selfless and putting their daughter first.

OP posts:
Babieseverywhere · 24/10/2009 21:11

tribeleader, I don't think anyone judges her for her decision to place her daughter in care.

Rather the fact she seemingly looks to raise money by writing about her experiences.

Do you know if Julie has/intends on sending Tania or her daughter all/any of the money raised from the book ?

saintlydamemrsturnip · 24/10/2009 21:14

Well I do judge people who don't value those who have disabilities. So I that is why I judge JH. I judge her for her needing to have an academic child (dear god). I judge anyone who expects a mini me. I judge her for writing a book without apparently even understanding what she is saying about the value of life with severe disability. And yes I do judge her a bit for being too weak to stand up to her husband. And I judge her for having another child after she had abandoned one. That is my opinion. Had she not written her book I wouldn't be judging her. Her choice to put it into the public domain. My choice to comment.

I'm not suggesting that dealing with SS is easy, although I have to say that (finally) I am happy with the respite package we now have. Largely due to luck (we had a very good social worker after years of useless ones). I'm not sure that social services being difficult to deal with (as they indeed are) negates everything else. It's fairly irrelevant to my judging as that is based on her opinions of disability. Rather than her individual choices.

MannyMoeAndJack · 24/10/2009 21:16

'So is it better for her to have carried on with a child she couldn't cope with just so she could be accepted by other parents that can cope?'

This is too simplistic - no caring parent who was at/approaching breaking point would carry on caring simply to be accepted by other parents!

BalloonSlayer · 24/10/2009 21:17

peachy, in case you are still reading, I have a good friend with an ASD child who assaults her. I am seriously worried that her - totally natural and maternal - view of "he's my son I must look after him myself" might be the death of her, as he is violent and is getting worse.

Residential care has been recommended to her by many health professionals, yet I believe she will be admitted to hospital as an emergency before she might even consider it.

To me, this situation is a million miles removed from that of JH, ably summed up by MrsTurnip like this:

"There's nothing wrong with putting your child into care if you can't cope. DS1 will require 24 hour care for the rest of his life and at some stage (hopefully in his late teens/ 20's) he will move into carefully chosen (and no doubt battled for - because it won't be cheap) care.

"I remain very about dumping your child in hospital then buggering off back to your travel writing life and having another 'proper' child then writing a book about how brave you've been."

tribeleader · 24/10/2009 21:25

She didn't dump or bugger off!! If you read rather than judge, you would see that

And why shouldn't she write about it? It happened to her, it has and will happen to others, not everyone can cope with disability, there wouldn't be any terminations if that was the case.

The majority on here are parents that have chosen to care for their disabled children, she isn't talking about our children or how we deal with things, she is talking about her child and how she dealt with things. It isn't personal

BalloonSlayer · 24/10/2009 21:31

I was quoting from another poster tribeleader, but I do remember reading originally that she didn't arrange for her daughter to go to the wonderful Tania, but refused to collect her from hospital.

The arrangement for the baby to go to Tania, and the success of this, being fab but nothing to do with the mother's efforts.

Imogen could have ended up in a children's home for all she knew.

OK she didn't dump her like she dumped all her things, eg threw them on the dump, but it's surely reasonable then to say that she "abandoned her daughter to the care of the state without her loving supervision as to what that care might entail."

saintlydamemrsturnip · 24/10/2009 21:32

She decided not to collect her child. That is dumping.

I don't think terminations has much to do with coping with disability tbh. Completely different issue.

The way she writes about her disabled child, the words she uses- her words - the way she spoke about her on TV again her words- she judges her as worth less than her other children. I'm sorry I judge that.

saintlydamemrsturnip · 24/10/2009 21:33

JH herself said on TV that she abandoned her child. I agree with her on that point.

SCARYspicemonster · 24/10/2009 21:50

She did tribeleader. She left her in the hospital and didn't go to collect her. She said so in the Guardian interview I read last year.

I'm sure that some people can't cope with a severely disabled child. I'm not sure I could - I watch my good friends with their DD and her constant pain and her hospital visits and the fights that they have to get her the wheelchair/support/education/transport/etc/ she needs and it's exhausting to see from the outside. I don't know if I could do it. But that isn't the issue people have with JH. It's the fact that she's profiting from it that I find horrible.

I think writing the book is not such a bad thing to do - shocking as it may be, it might be good for some parents who are thinking of committing unspeakable things to know that there is an escape. But I'd have a hell of a lot more respect for her if I knew she was donating the profits to Helen House. And as that's not being bandied about, I assume that's not the case.

SCARYspicemonster · 24/10/2009 21:52

Sorry, meant to say that's not the issue I have

misdee · 24/10/2009 22:20

tania has updated her blog.

saintlydamemrsturnip · 24/10/2009 22:32

She needs to move here- foster payments for a child like Imogen are (depending on age) between £575 and £648 a week here! They have just put them up mind - along with a big recruitment drive. This of course may reflect them shutting a lot of respite centres (although they've found they've had to open them again as a lot of parents don't want foster care, they want respite in centres).

Hoppity · 24/10/2009 22:38

just read tania's blog and i am going to bow out of this thread out of respect for her and her dd

LaDiDaDi · 24/10/2009 23:01

Thanks misdee.

Read the update, very interesting and illuminating really. It makes me feel a bit at my own judginess tbh as Tania clearly knows more about this specific situation than the rest of us do.

artlesschaos · 25/10/2009 01:28

If she couldn't cope, fair enough. We had a Downs Syndrome scare with DC2 at the 20 week scan and I seriously considered an amnio to find out for sure. It carries a risk of miscarriage which was similar to the risk of Downs.
We (DP never wanted to go down that route anyway) opted to just wait and hope for the best.
DC2 was born perfectly normal but I was very scared during the latter half of my pregnancy.
I'm pretty sure I couldn't have given my child away, had she had DS but I could never hold it against anyone who felt they couldn't cope.
I do however think it's sick and wrong for this woman to make money out of the situation.

artlesschaos · 25/10/2009 01:30

Meant to say our personal risk of Downs was similar to the risk of miscarriage through amnio..about 1/100.

dittany · 25/10/2009 01:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tribeleader · 25/10/2009 01:49

Get your names right dittany

And she hasn't been abandoned and your use of brain damaged is insulting

dittany · 25/10/2009 01:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tribeleader · 25/10/2009 01:49

I don't have issue with occasional reference in a book or article where it is used as a description of events or outcome, your use of it is highly insulting, you used to it to offend or is that how you refer to person who has a disability or a brain injury??

And I was refering to your mistake in the two mothers names, if you are going to insult someone, use their correct name

tribeleader · 25/10/2009 01:56

She did not call her a death head though, she used it to describe, the death of her head?

please don't bring your warped views and arguments into a subject you know nothing about, your words above are nasty and out to shock as usual. As a mother that has a daughter with a brain injury the same as Imogen, I find your remarks and turn of phrase highly insulting and offensive

Oblomov · 25/10/2009 07:52

I have just read Tanias blog. I read it at the time, a long time ago, on last thread.
I guess, I didn't like Mn being criticised, but she seems so nice, I can't be cross with Tania.
However she does say, that if you haven't been in that position, you can't truley appreciate how it was/is for JH. That is indeed true.
BUT, and this is a BIG BUT, any perosn is entitled to an opinion. On something you see on tv, read in the papers, see Jh on 'This Morning'. We are entitled to an opinion. And yes I have read JH's book. So I do believe I am entitled to an opinion.
Mn is very supportive of Sn. Lots of the Sn mums posted about how they felt about JH.

sarah293 · 25/10/2009 07:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

sandcastles · 25/10/2009 08:09

tribeleader, you really have to get your head around one thing here...no matter how you say it or view it JH & her husband did not collect their child from hospital, they left her there with no intention of ever caring for her again.

Therefore they abandoned her.

It is as simple as that.

saintlydamemrsturnip · 25/10/2009 09:05

of douse immie is brain damaged. My son is brain damaged too. My point as always is that even with brain damage you can have a life every bit as valuable as someone without brain damage. That as ever is mybeef with JH. And I think many of us have been in her situation-riven certainly has- and there are others on the SN board- we made different choices - but it's not any easier to come to terms with just because you hang in there.

Following on from tania's blog I should make clear my comments about finances were not to do with immie or tania's arragenents. They were to do with me. If I fostered ds1 in this local authority I would get over 2 grand a month. As I am his mother I get nothing - not even carers allowance because I work- although I do exactly the same amount of caring as I would if I were a foster carer. I work round ds1's care needs - doesn't matter - working on top is enough to scrap carer's. better financial support to families might relieve stress and family breakdown - disabled kids and poverty is well known to go together. Stupid rules which base carers on how much work or study you do rather than how much caring don't help.