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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that people claiming that BNP voters aren't racists are being disingenuous?

838 replies

MrJustAbout · 23/10/2009 00:04

I don't get the argument "that these people aren't racist, but they vote just BNP".

For me, If you vote BNP, you are a racist. I know this is guilt by association but I think it's fair. What's more, making excuses for those who choose to support these hatemongers makes it more acceptable for them to do so.

I know I wouldn't vote for a party when I didn't know their policies and if I did, I'd feel pretty ashamed that I voted without bothering to find out. To be honest, anyone who votes for the BNP and claims that didn't realise they'd just cosied up to facists needs to give up voting for good.

OP posts:
MillyR · 24/10/2009 20:20

As for Saint George's Day, I don't want my children to celebrate it. I am proud of being English but I don't see that as a reason to make up a celebration day that I have never known anyone celebrate and have no cultural history of.

On the more important topic of why people vote BNP, in Burnley the County council seat was voted in by people in Padiham and Burnley west. That is a leafy middle class, white suburb. So the seat was not voted for by a load of disaffected working class people. The white working class live alongside the minority ethnic groups nearer to Burnley centre, who are actually only 11% of the Burnley population, not some huge population as some people seem to think.

I don't live in Burnley, but I am about 30 mins away and sometimes visit for food shopping. It doesn't seem to be a place of race hate between different working class groups. I would stereotype it as more of a problem of the uptight lower middles. But that is just my perspective.

Squidmission · 24/10/2009 20:20

I think its really sad that someone would vote bnp because their child may need council housing one day and they want to ensure that they're treated with priority.
DP, your child may very well have a brilliant future. Why would you focus on such a thing?

Although everything you've said has left a sour taste in my mouth (I'm an immigrant who you'd like to 'send back to where I came from' even though I've only ever been back to visit my place of birth about 4 times in my life) I commend you for sticking it out here and trying to explain yourself.
We're all finding it frustating as your reasoning is so flawed. All your arguments are based on racist rumours, lies and exaggerations.

If anything, I really, really hope you have a long think about your opinons and what your vote actually stands for.

daftpunk · 24/10/2009 20:22

that's not being racist electra...that's wanting a system that's fair and representative....

electra · 24/10/2009 20:28

daftpunk - I'm not sure how you can't see that is racist You've also said you object to multiculturalism.

VulpusinaWilfsuit · 24/10/2009 20:29

The reason I asked DP about her education is not because I think her views derive from her lack of education (although they might) but because there is a clear link between lack of education, lack of aspiration and the disaffectedness of the white working class.

If people feel themselves that there are no options, that's when they look for scapegoats.

Lizzylou · 24/10/2009 20:32

"If people feel themselves that there are no options, that's when they look for scapegoats."

That is so true, Vulpus, that is what the BNP are banking on, that and ignorance.

DP you aren't ignorant and you aren't unintelligent. I don't believe you really are a fascist either (you have made comparisons to fascsim ourself a few times).

You say that your DH is a Labour voter, what does he think about you voting BNP?

Lizzylou · 24/10/2009 20:33

Fascism yourself, sorry!

Mamazonabroomstick · 24/10/2009 20:34

MillyR - your post about NG making the rest seam reasonable was the point i was trying to make during Qt.
it frustrated me greatly. somoene actually reffered to Straw as saint jack

daftpunk · 24/10/2009 20:35

yep electra, i did say that... objecting to a multicultural society covers the whole world and beyond doesn't it....

Americans...Italians...little green men from mars...

tbh .i think you are taking this way too personally...this is a general debate....it's not all about you.

electra · 24/10/2009 20:36

Er, what?? Why would I think this was about me??

daftpunk · 24/10/2009 20:39

hi lizzy..

let's just say we have some interesting conversations.......ha ha

listen, say hi to everyone on the healthy eating thread for me....haven't been on there for ages...

i have to go.....

Lizzylou · 24/10/2009 20:43

Listen to your DH, DP!
I will tell em, come on and tell em yourself.
Take care

onagar · 24/10/2009 20:43

Policywonk, there are indeed lots of perspectives as there should be. All those with different views should be debating it. Seeing where they agree and disagree rather than just trying to discredit the opposition by suggesting they are greedy.

Electra, thank you. That's a good example of something that might be termed culturalist (unless that's a word already )

Yes it can be a 'cover' for someone who is racist to focus on, but just going by the words it isn't.

I think what has gone wrong in this country has been a guilt reaction. Knowing that we have been wrong in our treatment of others in the past we have overcompensated. This sometimes leaves us in the position of portraying anything 'ethnic' as noble and respectable while shoving aside anything 'British' as somehow not important and possibly racist.

This has not done minority groups any favours since it builds up hostility towards them. On the few occasions such groups are consulted they generally ask to be left to get on with it.

So you do get overenthusisastic authorities making everyone celebrate minority cultures while implying that to celebrate anything British (like St George)is to celebrate our imperial past and insulting to minorities.

Some of the worst examples are probably dreamed up by the Daily Mail so you have to be careful which ones you believe, but I'm afraid it does happen and does cause resentment among those who personally never oppressed anyone.

In a somewhat related example, I remember how the shops in my local town gradully changed. Suddenly there were shops selling saris and unusual (to me) foods etc where before they had sold jeans and fish & chips. I don't recall having a problem with this. You could still get everything you needed and window shopping was more interesting (like visiting another country).

I'd also add that I found the shopkeepers were more courteous than I was used to (not to mention working all hours to make a go of it which has to be admirable)

I do however recall when the local council announced that from now on planning permission would only be granted for shops that represented ethnic cultures. Not a move to foster good feeling whatever its intent.

Personally I'd keep schools (because you have to go there) neutral and let people celebrate what they want in their own time. I'm anti faith schools too for a similar reason.

VulpusinaWilfsuit · 24/10/2009 20:46

Oh, do supply the details of this, onagar:

"I do however recall when the local council announced that from now on planning permission would only be granted for shops that represented ethnic cultures."

Where was this announcement? And how did you find out about it? And can you still find the planning statement on their website? Because I'd be very interested to read the full details context and all...

Georgimama · 24/10/2009 20:58

I really doubt that he will be able to, Vulpina, because that is clearly bullshit...

onagar · 24/10/2009 21:03

They hadn't invented websites then. That would have been about 35 years ago. I knew because I lived there.

Georgimama, can we replace you with one of those shopkeepers. They had manners.

electra · 24/10/2009 21:03

onagar in my view that is racist - you and I are going to have to agree to differ on that point I think.

I notice dp has disappeared again without answering my question as to why this would be an issue I would take 'personally'

You don't have to be directly on the receiving end of abuse to object to racism and fascism FFS.

Georgimama · 24/10/2009 21:07

Oh, I have manners, for those who merit them, I just won't sit here letting people post complete shit that they cannot back up (because it isn't true) and then say, oh, well, it was 25 years ago...

Go to your local planning office, pay £10 for a freedom of information request, and come here and post the details. I will wait with baited breath.

VulpusinaWilfsuit · 24/10/2009 21:08

Yeah you lived there. But who told you? Exactly?

electra · 24/10/2009 21:08

'I think what has gone wrong in this country has been a guilt reaction. Knowing that we have been wrong in our treatment of others in the past we have overcompensated. This sometimes leaves us in the position of portraying anything 'ethnic' as noble and respectable while shoving aside anything 'British' as somehow not important and possibly racist.'

crikey, what nonsense.

Georgimama · 24/10/2009 21:09

And TBH your "the darkies were lovely and deferential when they set up their shops in my lovely white high street so it was OK really" attitude makes me want to vomit.

electra · 24/10/2009 21:15

vomit indeed...

bodycolder · 24/10/2009 21:17

Can't believe that was deleted fgs.Poor DP

benjysmum · 24/10/2009 21:18

I recall a conversation with a friend who once told me his boss had banned him from celebrating St George's day but had supported others celebrating St Patrick's day, St David's day and St Andrew's day. I think, when one is disgruntled, one will always find someone else to blame. It's just that the face of the people being blamed has changed, that's all.

It's just like a James Bond movie; the baddies used to be Russian in the Cold War era and now they're North Korean. Search me....

onagar · 24/10/2009 21:18

Well you may stand up if you prefer

Why so surprised anyway? It was for that shopping area only (not the whole borough in case that wasn't clear) and was meant to encourage diversity. I'm quite sure it was well intended. Just a bit naive.

I wasn't half as shocked at the time as you seem to be. I mentioned it only as an example of unintended consequences.

Before we got all those new shops half of them were empty anyway. Half the ones that were open were charity shops. At a low rent I expect just to have someone using them. Best thing that ever happened to the area I expect. I could see why the council saw it that way. The announcement just jarred a bit. No one was as outraged as you seem to be so I find it puzzling.

And as for manners only for some. That's a good example to set isn't it.

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