to think that people claiming that BNP voters aren't racists are being disingenuous?

[MrJustAbout]

I don't get the argument "that these people aren't racist, but they vote just BNP".

For me, If you vote BNP, you are a racist. I know this is guilt by association but I think it's fair. What's more, making excuses for those who choose to support these hatemongers makes it more acceptable for them to do so.

I know I wouldn't vote for a party when I didn't know their policies and if I did, I'd feel pretty ashamed that I voted without bothering to find out. To be honest, anyone who votes for the BNP and claims that didn't realise they'd just cosied up to facists needs to give up voting for good.

See, thats what i mean by grief, when you get called names like nasty bigot for just one example and are told that your opinions are crap why would you stick around to debate them, she's not going to get anywhere with posters like that, it'd just be another verbal kicking.

After years of her antics you do get bored lemon muffin.She has not been prepared to ever discuss her views even when her stance first became apparent.If this was her 1st set of posts then ok but she has flamed every minority in the past with no real debate just because she gets away with it here.

lemonmuffin, dp has not at any time tried to explain reasonably why she would vote BNP. Not once.

People are understandably horrified by the idea of someone voting for a party that is fascist, racist, sexist, homophobic, advocates violence within the context of the law and is filled with people who seem utterly bonkers and filled with hate.

Riven, to the point of fairness, it was people who 'would consider' voting for the BNP. Still a very shocking figure. Hopefully it is enough to get the other parties to get their arses in gear.

bodycolder....i have reported your post of 16.56.48 as it is a severe personal attack on my character.

i am not nasty, ill informed or "masquerading" ...

you have made assumptions about how i speak in RL, you have no idea how i conduct myself in RL, but let me assure you there isn't anything i say on here i wouldn't talk about in RL.

i suggest if cannot engage with people without such venom you should take a break from MN..

By the way, the YouGov poll question that returned the 22% agreement was 'would you seriously consider voting' BNP.

The more accurate question: 'who would you vote for tomorrow?' returned a marginal increase from 2% to 3% support for the BNP.

Hardly a massive swing, but still enough to give me the heebiejeebies and I hope enough for lots of apathetic liberals to bother to vote.

The QT thing did help NG- traffic to his site up 20%, and a friend assures me he seems completely non racist and reasonable.

Yet would a reasonable paty elect to elad them a man with NF and KKK links? I think not.

P you don't engage, you repeat yourself. There's a difference.And it's not as if you don't know you upset people. You do. At the very least you don't care about that, which I personally find odd.

Squeezy I did misunderstand you, in fairness it wasn't the wordiest of posts LOL.

I'm not sure how I feel about the whole QT thing tbh. There's a definite thing about freedom of speech but if freedom of speech gives the advantage to someone who would deny that topeople- then how is that value best protected? Are there viable caualties in the pursuit of a higher ideal? Quite possibly so.

hmm I do yougov surveys but I am registered as a Guardian-reading liberal pinko so oddly, I didn't get sent that survey

You're STILL not answering the questions, though, are you DP? But you keep clicking the thread.

Did you see my post about the Irish? What do you think about that, actually?

I am delighted that you have reported me

i am not posting anymore VW..but i'm following (some of) it...it's interesting..

i am more than happy to talk with anyone on this difficult subject, but i don't have all the answers...i'm sorry...i can't always explain myself very well on here...i apologise for that, i appreciate how frustrating that may be.....i'm just not very articulate..

i have tried to explain how i feel...i have given countless examples of why i feel the way i do....i'm sorry if it isn't good enough..

i was expected a hard time.....but i am not having personal attacks on my character...i am not a coward...my familyn and RL friends know how i feel politicallly....i talk about this in RL....how dare anyone make assumptions about how i am in RL

Look DP, we're not friends particularly though I do find you funny sometimes. I'm gonna struggle now I know what you believe. But I do - as I've said - appreciate some of the discussion we've had here.

You say you're 'not very articulate'. I am interested in what this means. Would you mind saying what kind of education you had and whether this sense of not feeling articulate relates to that?

All the people who believe DP has had a poor old hard time, presumably would not feel the same if they UTTERLY disagreed with her?>>

Actually I disagree with DP on very nearly everything she ever says. As I'm an atheist DP has got a place reserved for me in the deepest hell.

I feel relieved though and heartened that there are still people who will speak up for what they think even against the screams of outrage.

I feel queasy every time someone posts "AIBU to think it should be illegal to have a different opinion to me" which is what so many of them boil down to.

'I feel relieved though and heartened that there are still people who will speak up for what they think even against the screams of outrage.'

When it comes to the issue of racism though there are laws about inciting racial hatred (didn't someone get banned for it?)

yes UCM was banned following drunken racist comments.

I must have missed the post where DP suggested we burn immigrants at the stake. Having an opinion on immigration is not against any laws. Also you are assuming it matters which race immigrants are part of.

I am a first generation Brit who has only lived here about 8 years. I was university educated outside the UK (no drain on govt resources there) and have worked and paid taxes ever since I arrived in the UK. I have served in the military. Most people can't tell until I tell them that I'm originally from overseas (except for my skin colour of course). According to the BNP however, I am not indegenous British and should be "repatriated".

People who vote for the BNP as some sort of protest vote have clearly not thought the matter through. The BNP is not seeking to differentiate between people who are useful to this country, and their definition of indegenous people is taken from an arbitrary point in British history. I am no history expert but considering that over the course of history we have had Romans, Vikings and all other sorts turn up in Britain, some without so muchas a by your leave, you have to ask, who is the indegenous British person? What about mixed race kids?

For the record, I am all in favour of managed migration (DP is not but then he's a capitalist through and through), I just don't believe in immigrant bashing to distract form other social problems that we as the British (and I include myself in that category) face.

Sorry about the long rant.

Some of the comments have definitely been racist imo.

Being concerned about the current policies on immigration doesn't justify racist remarks or the need to vote for the BNP imo....

I inadvertently clicked the "post message" tab so no proofreading there. Oops!!

The concept of an indigenous Briton is a total nonsense.

you haven't given examples DP thats rubish

a tenuous mention of honour killings

followed by a flurry of people saying - murder is wrong by any colour or creed. that in OZ some guy threw his 4 yo off a bridge - its not about colour its about horrible people no matter what their colour. if a newspaper mentions honour killings - how can you suddenly think all the muslim population abide by this custom.

you were given information and fucked off and didn't come back

you PIPED in that you were voting bnp for your daughters becuase all the immigrants get the housing first

policywonk showed you an article about how much bullshit this is ( i work in housing btw)

again you fucked off and didn't come back to answer the point.

there is no debate here

there is DP throwing fireworks and then seeing the rest off us run around like stupid fuckers becuae she simply can't be arsed to engage.

its not to do with how articulate you are - if you raise a point and someone bothers to answer you its good manners to come back and say " yeah i read your link and i agree/don't agree with it becuase..."

its not that so many have been thrown your way you missed some points.

you haven't engaged on any

not
one

I do still think it is interesting onagar, that most of the people who think DP has had a hard time, also seem to feel immigration issues are a problem. And then protest, all wide-eyed, that this has nothing to do with race.

And I do wish the apologists for UKIP would all fuck off too.

But yes, let 'em speak. I welcome debate. If only you they would have one.

electra, I agree, but this is the basis for the BNP's immigration policy so I don't understand why people express support for them on that point; it's strange.

Electa, I'm not absolutely sure there have been no racist posts, but can you point to one or did they just 'feel racist'

Voting BNP doesn't necessarily count (though I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that a large number of members are). If it were as simple as that we could just arrest all the members now.

benjysmum, I think any argument based purely on race is nonsense so I'm with you on that point. I really don't care what color people are and never have understood why anyone else would.