to think that people claiming that BNP voters aren't racists are being disingenuous?

[MrJustAbout]

I don't get the argument "that these people aren't racist, but they vote just BNP".

For me, If you vote BNP, you are a racist. I know this is guilt by association but I think it's fair. What's more, making excuses for those who choose to support these hatemongers makes it more acceptable for them to do so.

I know I wouldn't vote for a party when I didn't know their policies and if I did, I'd feel pretty ashamed that I voted without bothering to find out. To be honest, anyone who votes for the BNP and claims that didn't realise they'd just cosied up to facists needs to give up voting for good.

Sadly yes. They are Islam's equivalent of the BNP I suppose.

Two wrongs never make a right.

Perhaps we should put all the racists of whatever colour, creed or nationality down in Antarctica and let them get on with it?

That way, everyone else can get on with getting along without someone trying to stir things up - neatly solving the whole population pressure issue too!

'Has terrorism become the new 'fighting commies' of the 1950's?'

Yes.

Post 9/11 and an American, I objected to the Iraq war - primarily on ground of language and ideals, because we didn't know about the lack of wmd's - so my coworkers threatened to report me to Homeland Security. They told me to like it or LEAVE.

Well, I left. And to be frank, the cries of 'socialist' during the last election only seem to justify my decision.

'In Australia and the US they have systems which enable well qualified / entreprenuerial people (like the OP) to enter and this is what the UK needs - this is how the economy will improve. Not by allowing more labourers in. '

Ok, had to comment on this.

Yes, the US has a points/quota style immigration policy. They also have, at last estimate, 12 MILLION illegal immigrants, primarily from Mexico and China, frequently doing labourer jobs and making up approx $1 trillion in a shadow economy.

In several states in the US you could make a clear case that the middle-class prosperity is built on the backs of immigrant labourers doing jobs for - not minimum wage ($6.85/hr iirc), but closer to half or 1/3 of it.

The muslim extremists are not racist; in their case its religious hatred. Nowt to choose between the two IMO. Its still 'us' and 'them'. NG is guilty on both fronts.

Fgs dp if you were at all well informed you would know that custy is on atkins she doesn't eat cake or make it!

I think you are all guilty of bullying DP, just because her views seem to clash with yours, thats the whole point of freedom of speech.
The irony is, this thread has given more support for the BNP than you would really want it to.
AND, there apparently has been arrests made last night over the anti fascist campainers, who were demonstarting against NG being on QT, which i find ridiculous, they have got their selves into such a frenzy that they have assaulted police officers and being arrested in their "quest for peace".
What a joke.
I'm glad mumsnet HQ have removed that disgusting link that was posted, people who do that are vile, it's reminiscent of when the members list was made public and innocent people, with children too, were being threatened, something along the lines of "we're gonna firebomb your house, you nazi fascist bastards"
Nice

bullying is in the eye of the beholder but justbecuase out views difer doesn't constitute bullying.

agree with the rest of your post regarding the moronic actions of those who purport to want peace love and harmony or to save fluffy animals by blowing up humans. it is insane.

however by saying that some the anti-facists were arrested doesn't in itself validate any argument - so if it was meant to infer that becuase of the arress of the few all anti facists are moronic - i don't think it holds water.

PMSL bodycolder

"daftpunk, if you did a little research with an open mind you will find that the BNP are specacularly anti women."

Exactly, Hellomouthcrusty. Here are some reasons why the BNP are bad news for women:

? BNP members have publically ridiculed rape.
? BNP policy to clamp down on reproductive and LGBT rights, banning mixed marriages, and banning religious dress and food from public arenas, disproportionately affects women.

ine.co.uk/tol/news/ politics/ article3716550.ece
bbc.co.uk/ 1/hi/uk_politics/ 7326987.stm

? The BNP use the idea of women?s rights as a tool to incite racial hatred, for example saying that all of the sexual assaults in Norway this year have been committed by ?third world immigrants?.
? This false claim that sees feminism as a repository of white western supremacism can lead to an antifeminist backlash in the defence of multiculturalism.

nationalists2.blogspot. com/2008/ 02/womens-rights- third-world- style.html
uk/2009/09/third-world- rape-nightmare-grips-oslo/

The BNP seek to impinge on women?s rights directly, and their brand of ?women?s rights? tarnish the name of feminism which is an obstacle to all women?s rights advocacy. This has been recognised by a motion passed at the last NUS Women's Committee meeting.

Sorry try this link for the claim about all sexual assaults in Norway this year have been committed by ?third world immigrants?.

bnp.org.uk/2009/09/third-world-rape-nightmare-grips-oslo/

Womens rights BNP style

There is no doubt that the BNP are bad news but the middle class knee jerk reaction to its rise in popularity will only fuel it.

Custy - I actually agree with every point you make, but like Jack Straw last night, you make it in such a high handed way, that you will never win over the ordinary working class voter.

In my home town in West Yorkshire, people are not bothered about the minutiae of policy, they just know that they can't get a job and that the factories are employing immigrants on short term, low paid contracts. These are working class communities where good working conditions were fought for by successive generations of proud trade unionists. They deserve to be listened to, even if we don't like what they're saying.

The local MP has no interest in listening. She is never their as both she and her ball- aching husband ( see what I did there )are far too busy in WestMinster to bother about the little things like the electorate.

Saying to voters considering voting for BNP that they are disgusting and bullying them will solve nothing. Far better to ask why on earth they would do that.

Litchick I agree with you. I keep asking DP for more details in a very non-bullying way. She thinks she has answered but she hasn't, she has evaded every detail and every follow-up when I ask for clarification.

She doesn't want to explain her beliefs because she's scared.

I've had this on BNP threads on here before and I don't know if I'm being obtuse. People are listening to the pro-BNP, anti-immigrant points, but by and large do not agree with them. So often, when people say 'we must listen to BNP voters' concerns', what they actually mean is that we should agree with the nonsense people are spouting - at least to the extent of making xenophobic immigration policy. I'm not going to start agreeing with racist, ignorant guff just because some halfwit will run off and vote for the BNP if I don't.

How about the BNP supporters listening to the anti-fascists, just to make a nice change?

I'm not scared of anything, I don't have to explain anything to anyone, do you have to justify to people why you vote labour..?.. do people interrogate you...? I will be voting BNP and that's it.....

I'm not interrogating you. You don't have to explain why you vote for whoever. I on the other hand have no problem at all explaining why I vote the way I do: what would you like to know?

But if no-one thought about the policies and ideals and ideologies of the people we vote for, and weren't prepared to explain, defend them we wouldn't be much of a democracy.

I think all BNP supporters are scared: they're scared of change, they're scared of things they don't understand, they're scared of things they perceive (mistakenly) as utterly different from them. And they turn that into an attack on the thing they fear.

And I think they're also scared of education, because it will challenge that fear. Then they will have to face up to things they've been taught to hate, and realise those things are not so bad after all. Like most phobics, they prefer to stay in their comfort zone.

Cowards.

its cos you can't explain it dp.

i'll explain why i vote for who i do - if you do

high handed litchick? i think you just called me tall

its custy& not crusty! i wash mi knickers y 'know ( when i wear em)

hope not hate

I'm not a coward, far from it, I'm prepared to be called a fascist and all the other crap in order to get the BNP more power

Yeah, in that context. You are very brave, actually, for still being here, and I do admire you for that, even though I utterly reject what you stand for.

But in the context I meant, which again you've conveniently sidestepped, the turning fear to hatred IS a form of cowardice.

'At least Christians now are objecting to the BNP claiming to want a 'Christian' country . '

Wellthis Christian is anyway.

I loathe ahtred

jesus taught us about love and forgiveness and the BNP are the polar opposite of that.

Judge nt

Love thy neighbour