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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be annoyed by a party talking about mending the society they broke?

301 replies

tatt · 07/10/2009 09:06

without any apparent recognition that it was their revered leader (Thatcher for anyone too young to remember) who was a major cause of the breakdown? I know it's an improvement on there is no such thing as society but it still annoys me.

OP posts:
Original poster
tatt · 07/10/2009 10:41

"They are a political party. They are trying to win an election. I think your expectations are unreasonable."

They don't seem to realise that this isn't the way to do it, which for me casts doubt on how they would manage the country in future. David Cameron mouths some good phrases but we've heard those before and they weren't translated into action.

I repeat - I very much doubt that many of the BANKERS who got us into this mess are Labour party supporters - does anyone here think they are? It is not the Labour party that created the mess, unless you count lack of regulation. And who thinks a Conservative party would have had more regulation? So the mess would have arisen with either party. However the Conservatives might have responded differently, possibly allowing a bank or two to go bust and more people to lose their homes.

At the moment it doesn't seem to me that either of the main parties has a clue about how to stop the mess being repeated. Bankers are busy rebuilding their bonuses.

Where does David Cameron expect people to find the jobs he talks about - China?

OP posts:
GhostWriter · 07/10/2009 10:42

serenity, I don't doubt it. We're two constituencies across and our LibDem chappie is a wet dishcloth who is very good at moaning about everybody else and useless at stepping up.

morningpaper, sounds very much like my parents' constituency several years ago. My parents were Labour supporters but worked hard to help the LibDems in and it paid off.

I can't not vote, my conscience doesn't allow it but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do come the day. I might draw a cartoon and spoil the ballot through indecision.

Prunerz · 07/10/2009 10:43

I agree with MissM about the fear and despair under the Tories in the 80s.

It really was a desperate time, a whole swathe of society was emasculated and we deal with the ramifications of that every day in terms of long-term cross-generational unemployment.

Thatcher surfed the wave of the American societal change towards overt individualism and pride in consumerism, and personally I think that has been disastrous for us, but probably unavoidable in a global context.

Anyway - the Tories will get in, then be voted out again, and on we will go.

MissM · 07/10/2009 10:43

In my experience the LibDems do very well at a local level but I couldn't bring myself to vote for them nationally. They can say that they would do all kinds of great stuff, but they don't actually have to put their money where their mouth is, so I think it's a wasted vote. I haven't forgiven the SDP for splitting the labour vote in 1987 personally (bitter, moi?)

I think Gordon got a rough deal to be honest. David Cameron or Tony Blair could have been PMs when the global financial crisis hit, and I doubt either of them would have handled things better. And even if Gordon did see it coming, what could he have done? Didn't the whole thing start with dodgy mortgage lending in the US? How could the Labour party have prevented that from happening?

On another point I think they must address what's going on in Afghanistan. I think they've lost sight of why we went in in the first place and need to act to prevent any more pointless loss of live.

To nail my colours to the mast I will probably vote Labour, but not because I have any faith or respect left for them.

serenity · 07/10/2009 10:44

The UK isn't destroyed. It's in a slump, it's been in far worse and it will recover. The question is just how bad will it get and for how long. Individuals might not recover, companies might not recover, but the UK as a whole will.

fembear · 07/10/2009 10:45

Part of the financial problem most certainly belongs to this Government. France and Germany regulated their banks, so they didn't get in as big a mess as us and are now out of recession. We are still in recession.

I don't know if the Tories would have handled it differently but they woldn't have been scared to do it. NuLab was so scared of upsetting big business that they let the fat cats walk all over them.

Prunerz · 07/10/2009 10:45

I voted Green last time (council elections) as a protest vote.
I have no idea what to do in a general election. No Tory presence in my constituency of any note so it's a moot point but I'd like to be able to vote positively.

skihorse · 07/10/2009 10:47

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Prunerz · 07/10/2009 10:48

Yes that is true, serenity.

And I think in amongst all this talk of financial destitution, we forget we are one of the very richest countries in the world and how we compare with the people half-way down the list, never mind at the bottom.

Not that we can't improve but what do we want?

MissM · 07/10/2009 10:50

Oh, and I'm a public sector worker and I've not had an above-inflation payrise for years. For the last two my payrise has been below inflation.

Fembear - one thing Labour has eagerly taken on board from Thatcher is the apparent terror of nationalisation and regulation. I never understand why this country can't look to Europe for answers and direction and always has to gaze west.

MissM · 07/10/2009 10:51

Of course there's more to it than that Skihorse. But I'm not impressed with your description of Gordon Brown at all.

sarah293 · 07/10/2009 10:52

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thedollshouse · 07/10/2009 10:53

Just noticed that myself. Very offensive and discriminatory.

fembear · 07/10/2009 10:53

Gordon is still scared of the banks. He will not introduce UK legislation because he says it is a global problem that needs global solutions. He is scared that if we legislate on our own then large parts of the banking industry will de-camp elsewhere. It might have been better for us if the extreme bankers had de-camped - instead we have, for some reason, bailed them out. And your kids will be paying for it for decades.

fembear · 07/10/2009 10:58

"I'm a public sector worker and I've not had an above-inflation payrise for years"

Above inflation!!!! I've not had any payrise in years, never mind above inflation.
As a matter of interest, why do you think that your wages need to go up more than your costs have?

MissM · 07/10/2009 11:00

I don't necessarily think it should Fembear, just pointing out that a freeze on public sector workers' pay isn't a new thing.

I'm also confused - I thought that if a household earned over 50K they couldn't claim tax credits anyway? Can someone put me right on that cos I was genuinely surprised.

bertieboo · 07/10/2009 11:01

No worse than hullygully's description of the conservative party.
Sikhorse is going against the socialist grain of this thread "all the tories, are rich, privately educated trustafarians" etc

GhostWriter · 07/10/2009 11:02

skihorse, you may have a valid argument, I don't know as I cannot read anything you say in light of your frankly disgusting and unnecessary personal comment.

MissM · 07/10/2009 11:04

Erm, I don't think calling someone an offensive name because of his disability is going against the socialist grain.

pippa251 · 07/10/2009 11:05

I know bankers are partly to blame for the financial mess but aen't the people who borrowed too much also to blame. I have always been a saver and never over streched myself and have been screwed in the recession. I.E HBOS shares were worth 56k now worth hundreds.

I am also a public sector worker and have not had a pay rise in line with inflation since I began my job. Also being a public sector worker- working shifts I'm going to have to end up having to pay more for child care.

Politically I'm more inclined to trust the tories as they seem to be being up front about what they are going to cut. the lib dems want to axe public secotr pensions which is a slap in the face for years of service and loyalty. Labour seem to be hemoraging money blindly.

Unfortunatley as a middle income family we are probably going to be screwed what ever we do!

thedollshouse · 07/10/2009 11:05

Hullygully's description was inappropriate too but at least she didn't use someones disability as a reason for insult. I have reported Skihorse's post.

Ripeberry · 07/10/2009 11:05

They are all as bad as each other. Better the devil you know.

fembear · 07/10/2009 11:06

You are right, bertieboo.
hullygully used the c-word in the second post on this thread and no-one picked her up on it.

sarah293 · 07/10/2009 11:06

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skihorse · 07/10/2009 11:07

bertie I just don't think Tories are all rich/posh. I also don't think we should stigmatise against for example, DC - simply on the basis he was lucky enough to have a great education! Wouldn't most of us want a top-notch education for our kids? Yet when it comes to MPs people seem to freak out at the words Eton or Oxbridge.

If anything, we should admire the "mega-rich, born with a silver-spoon" Tory who dedicates his life to public service rather than sitting on a yacht in St. Tropez surrounding himself by teenage Ukranians.

Traditionally the aristocracy HAVE looked after the poor around them... it's the nouveau who've fucked them over.