to be annoyed by a party talking about mending the society they broke?

[tatt]

without any apparent recognition that it was their revered leader (Thatcher for anyone too young to remember) who was a major cause of the breakdown? I know it's an improvement on there is no such thing as society but it still annoys me.

CHUNKY KIT KAT DO YOU REMEMBER WINTER 78? ENDLESS STRIKES, BANKRUPT COUNTRY STILL 2MILLION UNEMPLOYED WHO WAS IN POWER OH YES JIM CALLAGHAN LABOUR. THATCHER WON BECAUSE THE COUNTRY VOTED HER IN TIME AND TIME AGAIN SO SHE MUST HAVE BEEN POPULAR. CALLAGHAN HAD TO CALL AN ELECTION BECAUS HE LOST A VOTE OF IN PARLIAMENT CALLING FOR NO CONFIDENCE IN HIS GOVERNMENT. IAM SICK OF1 ALL YOU SOCIALIST PSEUDS ON MUMSNET LABOUR HAVE HAD 13 YEARS TO SORT US OUT AND LOOK AT THE MESS ( AND IT WAS WORSE UNDER OLD LABOUR.) IDIDNT VOTE FOR MAGGIE BUT I WILL VOTE FOR CAMERON. LETS HOPE HE SHUTS DOWN MUMSNET YOU ARE ALL A RUDDY PREDICTABLE DISGRACE

It's Labour that has broken society with their chaotic approach to family life.

A stable family is key to a secure society. Now that is gone and it is going to be hard to get it back.

SMELLY GULLY WASH YOUR MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP AND GROW A BRAIN

stop shouting, users

users, whoever, step away from the computer, we all need to calm down.

the point i believe being made is that how much schools, children get is partly due to the funding formula (some of us believe that is is fair, some of us dont)/ But how the LEA and council choose to spend additional funds raised through council tax and indeed how much council tax the council chooses to raise in the first place ALSO has an impact.

ScaryT has made some great points and I feel very rationally. I am disappointed that so few people have been able to refute them rationally.

catn see that scaryt has made any great points nor that they havent been refuted rationally. explain...

I think we have to accept that people have different opinions. Some parts of society (eg public schoolboys, army officers) seem to have a heightened level of entitlement making them think that their opinions are always right. That's what comes from being in an institution of like minded people for so long.

However, in the world outside (and this includes Mumsnet) they are quite frankly appalled to find some people do not agree with them.

I think it's great we can all have a nice, civilised discussion about politics.

And Usersrlosers is doing a pretty good job in persuading anyone who might have been persuaded by some of the articulate posters on here to vote Tory as to why it's quite a good idea not to.

Well I'm glad to hear you managed to alter his thinking of many issues

That was a sweeping generalisation obviously (my DH ex public school too)

But I do think the sense of entitlement does ring true for many in those institutions. I'm sure many don't see it as an insult either. It is just so inbred that many don't even realise they possess it.

Sweeping generalisation pumpkineater...

That is not my experience at all. A "sense of entitlement" is something projected onto those people by those who don't know them. Some of my privately educated friends (including those who went to Eton and Harrow) are among the most hard-working and open-minded people I know.

I don't give a toss about where someone went to school or what their social background is. It's how they act and how they lead their party, country and do their job that counts.

Sorry x-post pumpkineater.

I completely agree 'it's how they act, how they lead their party and do their job that counts.' I also rather like beautiful manners, but would disagree that one has to go to Eton to obtain them (rather an expensive way when one can do it for free at home).

I am merely pointing out that private/public school education does tend to give people a heightened sense of ^entitlement.

flyingcloud I agree 100%. I don't care what a person's background or history is - for me, it's how they act today.

I find it disheartening that if you think you're right on an issue you're considered as "feeling entitlement" - what's wrong with actually "just being right"? Education, experience and a balanced character means that sometimes you just do judge situations better and are just right. Around here though it means you're an out-of-touch, public-schooled entitled buffoon. Why on earth would I consider any of my opinions to be anything but right? It's simply illogical.

I don't see how those at the top end of the socio-economic scale have a sense of entitlement. I suspect this is totally bollocks.

What they have is a sense of responsibility, aptitude and, as a consequence, expectation. I think you are confusing entitlement with expectation.

It is those on benefits that have a sense of entitlement.

Any sense of entitlement a the top end is because they bloody deserve it because of their hard work (incl study) coupled with acquired skills.

Look Pumkinbleater, you think I am a ranting Tory putting people off voting for Cameron, do you not think your mate HollyGully is putting everyone off voting Labour by calling all Tory Posters and sympatisers C---TS you have the usual double standards

Users - you have to accept that there are diametrically opposed views on here and ones that are strongly held. However, descending to abuse helps neither cause. Those who vote Labour are no more going to change their minds about how they vote, than I am going to change mine. It is fun sparring with each other though. How we vote depends I think to a certain extent on the life we have had so far; our backgrounds; and our perception of things like private eduction, going to Oxbridge and private health care.

I also think that there are entrenched perceptions of a Tory, just as for me there are of socialists. The only Labour man who ever got me to look twice at the Labour party was John Smith, and he sadly died. Just as I find it hard to believe that Old Labour isn't lurking there under the NuLab guise, some on here find it hard to believe that Tories can want to get people out of poverty. I think underneath we all want the same things - we just disagree on the methods of doing it.

Tatt - thanks for the link for funding.

HH - the problem with the CTAX angle is that how much a Local Authority can raise is capped by the Government.

I accept that there are going to be variables; however, Cornwall qualifies for EU help due to rural poverty. It is NOT a rich county by any means and is dependent upon the tourist trade to make enough money to get through the winter. The infrastructure is not always brilliant; water rates are the highest in the UK for one of the poorest areas and people struggle to get by. Many of the kids where I taught had no chance of a job, or were limited in their opportunities. The amount of people who don't have English as a first language is increasing (I taught Poles and Bulgarians)and the schools are underfunded in relation to other parts of the UK. To me, that doesn't seem equitable.

I am going to count the amount of times the word C**T is used by the posters leaning to the right and then count the times it is used by those leaning to the left and then vote accordingly.

Disgusting language by supposedly educated women!

MadameCastafiore Oh dear, how will you mark your ballot paper in Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath given the names available?

The addition of the word cunt halts the Daily Mail in their tracks - one would hope!

userlosers - IMO accept we all have different points of view. 1979 did for labour, Neil Kinnock during the 80s worked towards the party becoming electable again. Two prime minsters changed the landscape of British politics this century, Clement Atlee then later Mrs Thatcher.

Whether you agree with her policies or not, there were many people who thought they had safe jobs for life on the dole. The reasons why, etc, are points for debate.

can't shut mumsnet down because you don't agree with others' points of view.

last century!

strange how differently people see things.

"Education, experience and a balanced character means that sometimes you just do judge situations better and are just right." Unfortunately that strong belief that your opinions are superior sometimes translates into refusing to listen to any other point of view. The ears may appear to be open but the mind is shut.

"What they have is a sense of responsibility, aptitude and, as a consequence, expectation. I think you are confusing entitlement with expectation."

What I see is a lack of responsibility and a belief that they were in some way entitled to all the privileges they have obtained since birth. Hence our MPs believing they are entitled to have duck houses and the like and that no mere taxpayer should dare to question their expenses.

However Tatt, it's MPs on both sides of the House who feel they are entitled to expenses - Labour as well as Tory, and they all have been as bad in claiming them. Yes, the press have focused on duck houses and moats, but equally you have Jackie Smith trying to say that her family home in Redditch was her second home and claiming accordingly and getting away with not having to repay the money.