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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be annoyed by a party talking about mending the society they broke?

301 replies

tatt · 07/10/2009 09:06

without any apparent recognition that it was their revered leader (Thatcher for anyone too young to remember) who was a major cause of the breakdown? I know it's an improvement on there is no such thing as society but it still annoys me.

OP posts:
smallwhitecat · 09/10/2009 14:05

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Message withdrawn

curiositykilled · 09/10/2009 14:08

"By scaryteacher Fri 09-Oct-09 09:30:39 Add a message | Report post | Contact poster
The sinking of the Belgrano was justified militarily, full stop, no commas. It was a war sweetie, and bad things happen. "

  • Smug presentation of your own opinion as fact coupled with nastiness all in one post.

'HerHonesty - would you prefer 'Hun'?'

  • rather a nasty personal comment after a person has expressed offence at being called 'sweetie'

Are you aware that a debate involves the arguing of both sides not you telling people what they should think because what you think is the truth?

If you feel you are experiencing life under the Labour Government, then why, when I said "Your profile says you live in Belgium so I'm not sure you'd have anything except the press to rely upon for an impression of the state of the UK." did you not answer "the UK is an hour away by Eurostar, and I am back frequently, so I do experience the UK on a regular basis. I pay a UK mortgage and UK tax, as does dh, so I do experience the UK. I'll be experiencing it when I'm back on Sunday, and in November and December"?

Was there a need to be so immediately smug, defensive and condescending? Could you not just have answered my point, which would be a valid one to make if you were living in Belgium full time and not paying UK tax, NI, UK mortgage e.t.c.?

I find the argument about the only way to work in a state comp being to send your kids to private school, absolutely unbelievably ridiculous! I don't know a single teacher working in a state comprehensive who has their child in private school and they have a variety of home situations - married to policemen, military men, single parents with a variety of children of various ages and needs. They have after school clubs, childminders, nannies or help from family and friends OR they choose to work part-time. Not a single one has put their child into private school. Lots of people choose teaching as a career because of the good wage and the compatibility with having children.

I am starting to think you live in another world!

TBH I don't care whether you agree with me or not, you seem hell bent on getting us 'ignorant fools' to see the light. It is making it rather impossible to have an enjoyable debate when every point someone makes is met with a knee jerk "But I am right and you are just wrong, waaaaaaaaaaah" from you.

OrmIrian · 09/10/2009 14:10

'sweetie' ?

Not you as well. Skihorse was scattering 'dears' and 'dearies' about like confetti last night.

Is it a tory thing?

curiositykilled · 09/10/2009 14:14

@ OrmIrian

HerHonesty · 09/10/2009 14:15

leftie land, is that the best you can come up with? i dont "suspect" anyone. know lots of forces wives with similar opinions to sc, and luckily lots with very different ones. and lots with none at all.

Rhubarb · 09/10/2009 14:16

The Tories are a dab hand at being condescending.

smallwhitecat · 09/10/2009 14:17

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Rhubarb · 09/10/2009 14:20
AvengingGerbil · 09/10/2009 14:22

The Belgrano was a war crime. Sweetie.

HerHonesty · 09/10/2009 14:24

no actually it explained why ST can have such bizarre views on just and unjust action during war.

loving the put downs by the way swc, st, bring em on. sticks and stones and all that.

smallwhitecat · 09/10/2009 14:31

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Message withdrawn

HerHonesty · 09/10/2009 14:38

in particular it explained her view on on the Belgrade, which is out of kilter from the rest of the UK< but i can understand why.

that's not bigoted, its actually me attempting to understand another persons viewpoint.

scaryteacher · 09/10/2009 15:04

Er.....I'm well aware of where Faslane is, I didn't say it wasn't in the UK, if you read my post. My concern is with what the effect of that decision will be on Plymouth and the surrounding areas, as with the decision to move the surface vessels to Portsmouth, as it will have a huge impact on local businesses and the local economy. But then, much of Devon is Tory and Cornwall is Lib Dem, so Labour will carry on ignoring the far South West as they have for the last 12 years.

Why should you have guessed I'm an Armed Forces wife? I'm also an Armed Forces daughter, daughter in law and sister. I'm a teacher as well and a mum. Why does my husband's job affect who I am? Why are you categorising me and making assumptions about me from my dh's occupation?

I am confused as to why you keep referring to me as Atlantis. My nickname is Scaryteacher - I think you have us confused. Maybe there was a different thread where you were discussing foxhunting with Atlantis?

The marginilisation of rural communities needs to stop. The countryside is something that needs to be cared for by being worked and lived in. It is not a theme park for townies on a day out. If you don't have farmers you don't have food, and we all pay more as we then have to rely on imports with all the costs added to the food. Farmers should be paid more for what they produce; it's interesting to see that the Tories are looking at changing the contracts to supply HM Forces with UK produced food.

Miss M - I don't have any respect for politicians who tell me to educate my child in the state system but send theirs privately, so we're probably about equal. If you would have no problem with my educating my ds privately if I worked elsewhere, then why does it matter that I earned that money by teaching? It doesn't alter my commitment to the students I taught; for me the system was flawed and I could buy out of it. There are two of us in our marriage and it was a joint decision (also informed by the fact ds could board there if we got sent to somewhere that we didn't want to take him; or without adequate international secondary provision).

My mil as I said is a governor of a large comp on a sink estate in Hampshire. She tells me that year on year the secondary school has to do outreach and go into the feeder primaries in order to teach literacy to get the students up to the standard they need to be at secondary. That is not the job of the secondary teachers, so the system is failing somewhere. The problem at secondary is that you are not allowed to get on and teach. There are constant directives coming in, some in contradiction of the ones the previous month, and it goes around in circles and is so frustrating. Teach this way, no, do it that way; parents have to fight to get help for their kids if they have SN; teachers are constantly paying out for resources because the school doesn't have enough in the budget to pay for things. The class sizes are too big (I once played sardines trying to get 35 large year 11s into a room with chairs and tables for 32), and the whole culture is exam driven. It doesn't matter what you achieve with the KS3 students, or the value added you put in, or what you achieved pastorally; you are judged (or were at the comp I taught at) solely by your residual (what your students got for their GCSE grade as opposed to their predictions). As you couldn't make them turn up to sit the exam, and couldn't make them write on the paper once you'd got them into the exam room, you were bound to get a couple of low results (especially when they had their leavers bash the night before the exam).

It is the inequality of the funding in education that makes me mad. Children in Devon and Cornwall get far less spent on them than children in other authorities; and when you look at the breakdown of where those authorities are, the Labour ones get more than others. Devon has just made 100 teachers redundant, so that will be an increase in class sizes and a lack of continuity in their education for those children. Play political games if you must, but not with education funding.

mumof2222222222222222boys · 09/10/2009 15:26

I have only scanned through this thread.

Hang in there Scaryteacher - imo you make some very good points. You know what you are talking about.

As for you who seem to be indulging in ST bashing, grow up or read some history. The ignorance of some of you is staggering.

HerHonesty · 09/10/2009 15:30

"Farmers should be paid more for what they produce" so will the tories mandate tesco's to pay more to british farmers? oh and by the way, its the townies that you berate so much that pay for that food.... its not a them and us situation by the way, we are one nation, despite what thatcher tried to create.

and fyi, plmouth has two labour mps. from the local analysis that i read Plymouth may not actually loose any jobs when you take into account the additional investment that is going into the area.

yes you are absolutely right, play political games if you must but not with funding - how education funding is allocated to LEA's is not political - but how LEA's in your case tories and libe dems - choose to spend their money absolutely is.

apologies i did get you mixed up with another poster, but we are still waiting for you to trott out the foxhunting stuff, or europe, cant decide which one will be first.

purepurple · 09/10/2009 15:33

Not read beyond the front page, but YANBU

scaryteacher · 09/10/2009 17:01

Sorry, just got back in from doing the school run, and now have to go and run Youth Club tonight. Will post again tomorrow.

For the record though - I do exist; I do not work for the Tory party; I am concerned about getting people out of poverty, but think there are simpler ways to do it than means testing and tax credits (raising personal allowances and reinstating the 10% rate would do it) and make it easier for people to understand; I think sinking the Belgrano was justified (where did Belgrade come from HH?), and I hope that the Tories do make Tesco pay more to British farmers.

FYI, I said Devon on the whole was Tory, therefore not all of it. I am well aware of how many MPs there are in Plymouth and which party they belong to.

It IS political how education is funded; why is there more per head spent on kids in Manchester than in Devon and Cornwall? Devon was somewhere like 154/155 in the LEA table in the amount of money per child it receives for the education budget from central government.

We eat in the countryside too you know - but then, Labour has created the town/country divide.

Back tomorrow - 170 year 7-9s await!

TheCappster · 09/10/2009 17:46

'Labour has created the town/ country divide'

how do you come up with that then?

is this another area where you present your views as fact?

it will be interesting to me, as a Labour voter who worked very closely with farmers through the 90s

In my area, a lot of the problems were inherited from the cock-ups the Tories made over BSE

HerHonesty · 09/10/2009 17:51

sorry, belgrano/belgrade typo. town country divide has always existed. what justification do you have that labour made it any worse than the tories did?

why dont you ask DC what he thinks about tesco's paying farmers more? not particularly thatcherite is it?

the funding formula was actually introduced by the tories wasnt it? and its per capita plus rurality, deprivation (poverty, remmber, you are concerned with that arent you?) and area cost adjustment.

quite how the NS policy will change things for the better i remain to be convinced about.

HerHonesty · 09/10/2009 17:52

mumof2 do you care to elaborate?

tattycoram · 09/10/2009 18:23

"It IS political how education is funded; why is there more per head spent on kids in Manchester than in Devon and Cornwall?"

This is going to keep coming up as the Tories are banging on about the Government buying Labour votes. I'm no expert in education but in general, centrally allocated Govt funding for public services is done on weighted capitation formulas, so that areas with highest need get the greatest funding. That seems fair to me.

HerHonesty · 09/10/2009 19:28

tatty thankgod i am not the only one who has picked up on this.

tattycoram · 09/10/2009 20:01

I know HerHonesty, depressing isn't it.When they talk about making funding "fairer" they mean making it the same everywhere. That's not necessarily fair

AvengingGerbil · 09/10/2009 20:39

But can you explain why a child in Manchester 'needs' more spending on their education than a child in Devon?

Genuine interest...

tatt · 09/10/2009 22:53

Explanation of school funding methods here

www.dcsf.gov.uk/efsg/fundingreform.shtml

quote from it "in essence all the formulae have a basic allocation per ?client group? plus top ups for deprivation and area costs as set out in the Green Paper"

Deprivation involves those on low incomes but also. I think, those for whom English is not their first language and maybe other bits.

I've been told, but would take more time than I have at the moment to check, that part of the difference may also be Devon not allocating to schools all the money it is given for education.

St your patronising attitude and language are the worst possible advertisement for the party you claim to support.

OP posts: