to think that maybe she went a little bit overboard?

[TotallyAndUtterlyPaninied]

It was my birthday yesterday and DH was taking me away for the day and then we were going out for tea. Mum was going to mind DS.

She came round in the morning for a couple of minutes to pick up my DS and obviously to visit me on my birthday. Dad and DB came round at the same time, didn't really speak to me and didn't say happy birthday. I explained that it was really important that DS went to bed between 6-7pm as he usually goes about 6.15 and it is the one thing he is really picky about. He's 17 months and when he's ready for bed he gets his PJs, nappy and wipes, asks for a cup of 'milk' and says 'bobos' if he's left up any later he gets really unsettled and he will be up a good few times in the night crying. He likes to get up about 8am and if he has gone to bed at his bed time he sleeps through. He's a little poorly at the moment with a head cold and cough so it's even more important.

I said I wasn't fussed about anything else, when I send food she normally doesn't feed him it and gives him her own thing so I thought fair enough since she's having him overnight for us.

She ended up 'losing track of time' as she went to her sister's house who generally takes priority over anyone else. She rang me at 7.45 saying she'd just put him to bed and he was crying his eyes out and refusing his cup of milk. She wanted to know what to do. I was just getting ready to go to the meal and got a little flustered. I was ok on the phone but I txt afterwards and said 'I really appreciate you having him for us but when he stays at yours or [DH's mums's] it's really important you stick to our routine as it really works for him.' She gets very huffy and on her high horse if MIL ever does anything slightly wrong like feed him the 'wrong' thing or put him to bed later/fuss over him and play with him when he's in his cot.

She rang me and said 'what the hell is that supposed to mean?' I said 'nothing, I'm just saying he's very much in his bed routine and he'll keep you up all night now and he'll be bad for a couple of nights.' she was really angry and started shouting.

I said I really didn't want to row on my birthday and I was on my way out. She said 'fine, see you' and hung up.

I rang this morning and I was nice, didn't mention the night before, just asked when we should pick him up. She was off, but ok.

She wasn't in when we went to pick him up so I rang her a few times to find out where she was, she didn't answer her mobile. I then rang my dad who was really off with me, barely spoke, was grumpy and had a really nasty attitude. I finally got in touch with my mum and she had gone shopping so DH and I went to meet her to get DS. I asked her why my dad had been off and if it had been because of the night before. She said 'I don't know'. I said that I hadn't been horrible, I'd simply said that it is important that he goes to bed at his bed time as he gets unsettled otherwise. She started shouting in the shop. She said that DS had slept fine but he was tired out and slept 2 and a half hours when he got home. He doesn't normally sleep in the day anymore or if he does it's for 15-20 mins or so.

My sister came round today to bring me a card and I said 'I think mum's upset with me'. Mum had already told her what had happened but had been moaning about the fact she looks after DS 3 afternoons a week while I work, but at the moment she has to have him 4 as SIL has broken her leg and can't look after him. My sister was well and truly on mum's side. My mum has her twins 6 days a week all day. Sister said that I 'need mum too much' to 'act' like I have, and that if I'm going to have mum look after DS then I can't have anything done how I want it done, it needs to be how mum has it done and I can bite my tongue.

She was quite agressive about this.

Background is that they are a toxic family and I am very much the scapegoat in general anyway. But I was just trying to ask her to do what is best for DS. I was nice about it and really don't know why she has kicked off so much. Now mum isn't speaking to me at all and had to drop some birthday cards off for me so she walked past my front room window- I was sat in the chair next to the window, posted them through the door and marched off.

It just all seems silly. I have a teaching observation this week and my 20 week scan so I'm very worried and may be being irrational but I just cannot see why she's gone mad about it.

This thread isn't really about that is it. I'm in a lot of debt and trying to get us straight. Mum offered to have him whilst I work and I agreed. DS being her favourite means he's not in the situation I've been in.

You can't say a family are or are not toxic when you know so little about it. And I don't have three years to write my life story out.

And the debt is not from me being irresponsible it is from DH's previous relationship.

But you are now saying you don't think she is suitable to look after him. SO don't let her look after him. Then you won't have to deal with her at all.

Well I'm not going to am I? He's going to nursery and SIL is having him the other day as of 2 weeks time. I said that a few posts ago.

You can't rely on someone then call them toxic. It does sound like she overreacted and it also sounds like she is at breaking point. She clearly can't handle all the kids even if she does want to.

But it´s now starting tosound as if your mum isn´t coping/is feeling put on.

I agree with a previous poster.
Ask your mum what she wants.

She offered to have your son, but maybe it´s gone on longer than she thought/is getting harder?

Diddl- I tried to ask her this today, she just got mad and said she wants to keep having him and she's coping fine with him. She says he is the easiest to look after but I said with two others there it's not so easy anymore. She is adament she wants to have him.

It's like she has to make life as hard as possible for herself as she has to be needed and she has to stand out as someone who's badly done to IYSWIM.

Also, if I put DS in nursery the few afternoons I work, and sister still has mum minding her very difficult to look after children so often, it will show that I was right. Mum was having DS first and I said she wouldn't manage with three but sister insisted that mum would be the only one to look after her kids as she won't trust anyone else. She keeps telling me to put DS in nursery- but then mum won't have it. I had said from day 1 I would rather him go to nursery as I didn't think it was fair on mum.

Sister works 5 days a week, one day a week she has mum mind her kids as she needs 'a break' and the other day she usually takes them to mums and palms them off or has mum have them overnight.

It's just a mess. I'm definately putting him in nursery though- so now it's just how to tell her.

Totally - a bit off topic but re the PND medication, unless you feel it is right for you to come off PLEASE go back to your doctor and talk again. I am pregnant and had PND after my first child. I was put on Citalopram.

I was terrified that the dr would take me off them because I was pregnant but I talked to her before TTC and she said it was best for me and the (soon to be) baby to continue on them. There is no evidence they hurt the baby at all and she said it was much better for the baby than for me to be so freaked out during pregnancy.

Please go back and speak to a different dr (if you feel you need the medication), I feel so much better this pregnancy being on them.

HTH.

Obviously don´t know your past, but it sounds as if you mum is trying to make things up by looking after your son?

If you think nursery is best, then you have to do it.

So your mum never has your son on his own anymore?
If so, it´s perhaps not that much of a pleasure to either of them.

You obviously also have to think what it´s like for your son.
He would probably welcome nursery or a childminder?

He loves his nana to bits he's got a real bond with her. I don't know why I'm getting so het up about all of this, I think it's really touched a nerve with me. I need to just chill about it all. I am being unreasonable in ways, too, and I can see that. It's just an awkward one. Sorry to anyone I've snapped at.

DeFluff- there are 6 doctors at my surgery, I've approached every one and they have all said no way to my medication. I thought it might be on my notes and they were 'sticking together' so to speak, so I requested the midwife ask the obstetrician (sp?) and he said no chance, too. I don't understand it. Midwife said she's had people on fluoxetine in the past so she's unsure why all they will prescribe me is sleeping tablets. I could sleep for England anyway. I don't know what to do, I feel like I'm going to have a breakdown It may be time for a name change soon as this is all a little personal.

You need to go and see someone else as soon as you can. I'm not a dr and know nothing about fluoxetine but am assuming if they were dangerous to your unborn baby rather than having nothing you could be put on an alternative eg Citalopram.

My dr is private, dont know if that makes a difference? Shouldn't obviously. But if you aren't feeling well it might be better to pay, say around £140 for a consultation and talk to someone that way. If you're near the Midlands I can thoroughly recommend The Priory hospital there. Also, look on the mental health boards here there are many people on there who are pregnant but are on ADs.

Im really shocked that your drs could be like this, unless there are circumstances i don't know about obviously, but they should surely have offered you an alternative.

And as for sleeping tablets??? if they are diazepam then they are contra indicated for pregnancy because they can cause cleft palette.

My heart goes out to you, I've been there and its frightening and isolating. You need a dr who will help you x

Book your son into nursery for one day a week and see how things goes. That way you aren't burning any bridges or being too drastic but you've got the back up if it all goes pearshaped. Your sister is behaving very badly imo - a bit of babysitting is one thing, she's got your mum raising her kids!

I haven't taken the sleeping tablets. They said they give them to pregnant women in labour so that they can nap before it all kicks off properly. I'm not sure what they are.

They have said they can only offer me counselling. Which I've had before and it was a bit crap.

There are no special circumstances or anything, but my doctors just refuse point blank as they said they can't be good for a baby and one said that she cannot see how I'd forgive myself if anything was wrong with the baby and I'd had ADs. I thought that was a bit OTT!

I think another doctor is the only alternative but I don't want to leave my midwives at that surgery and really can't afford a private doctor at the moment so I think I'll have to ring around other surgeries and find out what they think.

Hope this comes out the right way. I think your mother's behaviour is unreasonable. yes, you are asking her for childcare, which is probably too much for her, but she offered and she is your mother, the obvious choice. She is supposed to support you and you are pregnant, post natal, and more than a little stressed i think. I am sorry you don't have a more supportive family, and I'm sorry your mother cant take a step back and see that you need help not hassle right now. All you did was ask her to keep your child to his routine. Where is your husband in all this, is he being supportive?

Totally - thats disgusting. Really no need for that kind of rubbish in this day and age. As for 'how could you forgive yourself' thats just appalling. What about keeping you sane and well so that you can look after your baby? No one would ever suggest you took anything that would harm your baby but (at least with citalopram) there are no known effects at all.

Do some research yourself, look on here at the mental halth forums, try typing in 'citalopram' and pregnancy and see all the threads that come up.

And find a new dr, you SHOULD NOT have to cope with this on your own.

YANBU to want your son's happy bedtime routine to continue.

I do think your text sounds extremely rude. It does not matter if your son has one late night. I'm sorry he was upset but it's not a biggie, is it really?

Your mother may well be extremely toxic but she's also knackered, looking after your sister's children virtually full time. No wonder she can't cope and flew off the handle when you critcised her.

You are very lucky to have so much free childcare on tap.

ThingOne- he's going to nursery from now on.

I forgot to say to whoever asked before, DH is very supportive but sister and her husband were quite horrible to him when we first got together and he has always been treated as more of an outsider than BIL, but he's treated more of an insider than me IYSWIM. To the point that he's noticed, and he's not someone who notices or fusses. He's not overly keen on my family because of how they have been with him in the past but he is very nice to them and won't cause any kind of friction. But he does support me wholeheartedly.

anyway totally have you had the scan now?? How did it go?

I agree the text was rude. It was already past his bedtime; no point in texting what you did. It was just a telling off, basically. Which is fine, if that was your intention, but not if you're trying to see it as she's over-reacted about nothing. She hasn't - it was rude.

Also agree that this is your child, you decide who looks after him, no one else. Think you have made right choice to have him somewhere else.

slowreading- I just meant in future, not that I'd have him stay there again in all honesty. It was also kind of a point that she can only jump on every little thing MIL does if she's going to do things by the book, otherwise it's just not fair.

Girls- scan's tomorrow. Eeek. Very nervous. Trying not to get my hopes up incase there's something wrong but I'm so excited over every kick.

Good luck Total.

I must say, from what you wrote of your last conversation with your mum, she was taking a very defensive line and didn't appear to want to listen to you. You sound like you need a bit more TLC at the moment. Glad to hear you are getting it from your husband.

Thanks Jamie, I appreciated your step by step approach to this thread- helped me get my head around things a bit.

It also sounds as if your mother is obsessed with competing with your MIL.

She definitely seems to have a few points to score.

I still think your dsis is taking the piss and is the main cause of your mother's stress. Unfortunately she also sounds like the kind of person who can do no wrong so I sympathise with your situation.

I have never heard of a GP practice where 6 doctors would all refuse antidepressants in pregnancy but prescribe sleeping tablets. That just doesn't happen, IME (long term depression, 3 children).

I took sertraline in all my pregnancies. No-one would ever offer sleeping tablets. Just cos you give them in labour doesn't mean they are safe in the rest of pregnancy.

Either every doctor in your practice, the midwife and the consultant are negligent, or there is some other thing going on that you haven't mentioned. Cos that sounds just, well, weird!

And I ran it past my dh (who is a GP) as well and he says the same - he doesn't know any GP who would not prescribe citalopram or sertraline in pregnancy (or even fluoxetine) in preference to any kind of sleeping tablet which might become at least psychologically if not physically addictive.

How come you don't know the name of your medication?