to think that maybe she went a little bit overboard?

[TotallyAndUtterlyPaninied]

It was my birthday yesterday and DH was taking me away for the day and then we were going out for tea. Mum was going to mind DS.

She came round in the morning for a couple of minutes to pick up my DS and obviously to visit me on my birthday. Dad and DB came round at the same time, didn't really speak to me and didn't say happy birthday. I explained that it was really important that DS went to bed between 6-7pm as he usually goes about 6.15 and it is the one thing he is really picky about. He's 17 months and when he's ready for bed he gets his PJs, nappy and wipes, asks for a cup of 'milk' and says 'bobos' if he's left up any later he gets really unsettled and he will be up a good few times in the night crying. He likes to get up about 8am and if he has gone to bed at his bed time he sleeps through. He's a little poorly at the moment with a head cold and cough so it's even more important.

I said I wasn't fussed about anything else, when I send food she normally doesn't feed him it and gives him her own thing so I thought fair enough since she's having him overnight for us.

She ended up 'losing track of time' as she went to her sister's house who generally takes priority over anyone else. She rang me at 7.45 saying she'd just put him to bed and he was crying his eyes out and refusing his cup of milk. She wanted to know what to do. I was just getting ready to go to the meal and got a little flustered. I was ok on the phone but I txt afterwards and said 'I really appreciate you having him for us but when he stays at yours or [DH's mums's] it's really important you stick to our routine as it really works for him.' She gets very huffy and on her high horse if MIL ever does anything slightly wrong like feed him the 'wrong' thing or put him to bed later/fuss over him and play with him when he's in his cot.

She rang me and said 'what the hell is that supposed to mean?' I said 'nothing, I'm just saying he's very much in his bed routine and he'll keep you up all night now and he'll be bad for a couple of nights.' she was really angry and started shouting.

I said I really didn't want to row on my birthday and I was on my way out. She said 'fine, see you' and hung up.

I rang this morning and I was nice, didn't mention the night before, just asked when we should pick him up. She was off, but ok.

She wasn't in when we went to pick him up so I rang her a few times to find out where she was, she didn't answer her mobile. I then rang my dad who was really off with me, barely spoke, was grumpy and had a really nasty attitude. I finally got in touch with my mum and she had gone shopping so DH and I went to meet her to get DS. I asked her why my dad had been off and if it had been because of the night before. She said 'I don't know'. I said that I hadn't been horrible, I'd simply said that it is important that he goes to bed at his bed time as he gets unsettled otherwise. She started shouting in the shop. She said that DS had slept fine but he was tired out and slept 2 and a half hours when he got home. He doesn't normally sleep in the day anymore or if he does it's for 15-20 mins or so.

My sister came round today to bring me a card and I said 'I think mum's upset with me'. Mum had already told her what had happened but had been moaning about the fact she looks after DS 3 afternoons a week while I work, but at the moment she has to have him 4 as SIL has broken her leg and can't look after him. My sister was well and truly on mum's side. My mum has her twins 6 days a week all day. Sister said that I 'need mum too much' to 'act' like I have, and that if I'm going to have mum look after DS then I can't have anything done how I want it done, it needs to be how mum has it done and I can bite my tongue.

She was quite agressive about this.

Background is that they are a toxic family and I am very much the scapegoat in general anyway. But I was just trying to ask her to do what is best for DS. I was nice about it and really don't know why she has kicked off so much. Now mum isn't speaking to me at all and had to drop some birthday cards off for me so she walked past my front room window- I was sat in the chair next to the window, posted them through the door and marched off.

It just all seems silly. I have a teaching observation this week and my 20 week scan so I'm very worried and may be being irrational but I just cannot see why she's gone mad about it.

YANBU, and you do know that... I'd be cross if I ever asked my mum to make sure he went to bed, especially at that age, at a certain time.. if nothing else so as not to overly impact on her evening.

1.5 hours late at that age, is very late, especially given your request and the reasoning behind it, and the consequences.. and it's your routine, if you want to be RIGID about it, it's your choice. Not like you said for DS to be asleep on the dot of 6.15, you said between 6-7... Well she totally blew that....

Anyway, deep breaths

Just let it go, and if she wants to have a huff about it, let her.

You know you weren't rude, you know you thanked her many times, and you dealt with it head on, saying you're/dad's not grumpy with me cos of last night... and she chose so cop out with i don't know.

Leave her be for a day or two, and let her cool down and just don't stress about it.

That's what I wondered totally. As I said, I do feel for you. Having kids brings up all sorts of stuff from the past, and being preggers doesn't help.

Totally.

My mum reads the Bible to my children and preaches to them about Catholicism on the one afternoon a week that she picks them up.

I don't massively want her to read the Bible to my dcs (another thread entirely one day) but she does the childcare for free. As long as I know she isn't actually abusing them (and they are getting a, er, 'balanced' view of spirituality for the rest of the week ), I really don't feel in much of a position to criticise.

Anyway, good luck with your apology. You sound like a nice decent person and I'm hope your mum knows she's lucky to have you.

Perhaps it would be worth you, her and dsis sitting down and openly discussing these childcare arrangements. Perhaps it is too much for her, but ultimately it's up to her to communicate that.

yanbu - iam astonished some people think you were rude etc. You were polite and just reminded her your child has specific requqirements or all hell breaks loose (as it did). Just because she looks after your child does not mean its her way or the highway. People telling you that you should be grateful and all you could think of was going out for the night are f***g ignorant and imo stupid. Sorry ranting on your behalf now. sorry

BTW. Happy Birthday !!

YANBU. If she can't stick to the routine that you told her is omportant to your DS, she has a nerve to call you and ask how to settle him.

Happy Birthday btw.

Hi Totally my mum is just like this with my kids
me "So this is the routine, if you stick to it all will be well"
her "I didnt stick to the routine, all is chaos, what shall I do?"
me "Er what did you expect? I did warn you......."

With a lot of kids a routine change is fine but with my ds especially it was and is a no
no - yet still they persist...............

Arrrrrrrrgh! sympathies from me

Yep another YANBU here.

My dd1 has a routine of dinner at 5 bed at 7.
She'll be fine one minute and having a meltdown the next if the times aren't stuck to.

My parents/ILs/Dsis all think it's quite amusing and if they ever look after her I just say 'on your head be it' if they decide to keep her waiting.

This shouting match:

"She started shouting in the shop. "

Panini, really my dear, get a grip.

The only hissy fit I'm seeing here is from the woman who started yelling at her daughter in public because she was so annoyed at receiving a perfectly reasonable text message.

Unfortunately as you rely on her for (free?) childcare, as hocuspontas says, you're going to have to eat crow over this.

TBH I think a grandmother that openly has favourite grandchildren and who freaks out to the point of making a public spectacle over a text message sounds kind of toxic.

On the other hand, I'd be feeling pretty toxic if my two daughters expected me to do that much childcare for free.

Surely you and your sister could organise your lives in such a way that her life wasn't entirely taken over by your children? I guess your sister's issues are her own, but there must be some way you can reduce your reliance on her?

In particular, I think it is very unreasonable to just expect her to do the fourth afternoon if she is clearly finding it too much. What she does for your sister is irrelevant - you appear to have dumped her with extra childminding she can't handle and aren't looking for immediate alternatives, despite knowing she is struggling.

That sounds like a 24 hour babysit shift. That was really nice of you mum. Maybe even above and beyond.....
And she did that even though she wanted to go to her sister's in the evening.
I wonder if your mum is doing too much really, is just the kind of person who finds it hard to say "no", and ends up taking on too much.....that might explain your dad's frostiness.

ah I have made this mistake too many times with my mum. I have given up trying tbh, best let them get on with it, they truely believe they know best. My DM never puts dd2 down for her morning nap, and so i have her falling asleep at 3pm in the car home, when she goes to bed at 6.30pm!
I have learnt to pick battles, its a real PITA but trust me its easier in the long run!

your mum is exhausted. She has to be looking after so many children all the time. I can understand why she is resentful of having your ds for the 4th afternoon - she doesn't feel like she has a choice and is probably feeling the strain.A lot.

Your mum isn't expressing herself very well but hey ho who does when they are knackered.

Go round to your mum with some flowers or something an apologise then try asking her how she is and if she is coping. You might be surprised by the response.

As for feeling hard done by - Sorry to be harsh but your mum is the doormat in this situation.

God, mum has now said it was my 'tone of voice'. I said 'but it was a txt' and she said 'well you're always horrible.'

So then she started going on about how I said DH's mum is better at looking after DS thn she is. Where in my txt did it say that?? I explained that was not the case at all and she kept saying 'oh I am so sorry he went to bed a little bit late for one night'. I said that wasn't an issue, I had just been saying that it is important he sticks to his routine in future.

I asked if she is coping ok with having all three kids and she went ballistic saying she can cope just fine and she wants to have them etc. I said she seems quite down and is getting angry over small things and she then had me in tears saying I am horrible and I'm angry and nasty etc. So I said well I have PND, I've been refused my medication whilst I'm pregnant and I have my scan (previous very bad scan news when I MC'd earlier this year so I get very anxious about scans) and a teaching observation tomorrow so I am quite stressed and she said 'oh for God's sake, you're always horrible.'

I'm not. I barely see her to be horrible! I am always looking after my little boy, working or living family life with DH. When I do see her I make an effort to be nice. But I've always been labelled the 'bad' one in the family.

I said DH's auntie would be having DS tomorrow, she sometimes does on a Tuesday if she's off work. Mum got really mad about that too. I can't win.

I'm going to put DS innursery 3 days per week (which will cripple us even further financially but it's better than all this) so she wll only have to have him 1 afternoon for 2 hours- and only until SIL's leg is better in a couple of weeks. However, she is going to go mental when she finds out he is going to nursery rather than there.

How can I broach this without causing offense?

I think you need to sort out all your childcare so that you don't rely on your Mum. That way when she does babysit for you it can be a favour.

You can't rely on someone to that extent and then call them toxic, it isn't on. You will cause offence when you tell them, it is unavoidable but I think it will be nothing compared to how messy it is going to get if you don't stop using her quite so much.

is she in her fifties by any chance?

Everything became my fault when my mum hit the menopause.

Nursery is a good solution. And I really am sorry it will cripple you financially, but realistically, YOU are the only people with any responsibility towards your children. Your mum is NOT obliged to ever even meet them, like it or not.

PS

She's not toxic, she's pissed off with being used.

She is toxic- my whole family are. It took counselling to realise this.

She is in her fifties and probably about to hit menopause.

Yes - making yourself reliant on your mum will only lead to more trouble than it is worth. Even if it saves you money it may not be worth it emotionally.

And try not to make her treat you like she treats your sister. If it's a really toxic dynamic then you will have to try to learn to let it go as it will only bring you down.

Neither you nor your mum can stand back and see the wood from the trees. What you see as suggestions for fixing it come across in her eyes as suggestions to her that she can't cope, when she seems convinced that you all need her because none of you (her DCs) can cope without her.

Step away, calm down and really, really really, try to see things from other people's viewpoints. No-one is coming across as particularly toxic, but everyone is coming across as really stressed.

It doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong. What matters is who says what next. Think hard. She might be wrong, but you might also be finding it hard to call things right when you are PG and have PND. And she is probably too stressed herself to make much reaosn of everything either.

Going for a nursery option sounds like it will cause more problems than it solves. Why not go round to your mum and ask her what she wants at the moment, if there is anything you can do to help her, if she wants you to lighten the load in any way. Bet no-one has asked her that for a long time.

Your family are "toxic",but you let them care for your son?

How does that work, then?

Well, if you know she's toxic, why are you using her for childcare? She can't be that bad, if you trust her with your baby!

God I hate that word. People on here shouting 'toxic' as if it's some kind of shorthand for how the other party is always in the wrong and the poor non-toxic party is aways the victim.