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AIBU?

To want to bring back the dealth penalty?

176 replies

hugmeandcatchthelurgi · 01/10/2009 15:16

Another child pornography case in the news, why cant we bring back the death penalty?

Im a firm believer in peadophiles cant be rehabilitated, why send them to jail? i think the dealth penalty is more appropriate for peadophiles and child abusers

AIBU?

This last case in plymouth really upsets me, so maybe i am more hormonal than normal!

OP posts:

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CaresMildly · 02/10/2009 11:16

tykes - part of the problem is that they do not see that they have acted wrongly. Therefore if you punish them in the way you prospose they will feel an injustice has been committed against them. Frankly, it has.

The only true punishment, imo, is the realisation of what they have done - and having to live with that knowledge.

Squitten · 02/10/2009 11:32

I don't agree with the death penalty - far too many flaws in terms of killing innocent people, etc. Doesn't seem to be working so well in the US either.

I don't believe that people are fundamentally evil. I wonder, what if my own son grew up to be something horrid like a paedophile or murderer? These people used to be babies just like our own and I can't believe that any children at that tiny age are "evil", or at least I certainly haven't seen it. I think that something goes drastically wrong in their lives to turn them into these kinds of people.

Keep them out of society, yes, but I do think that we should try and help them.

tiredemma · 02/10/2009 11:41

I wholeheartedly agree with Peachy and Scottishmummy re mental illness.

MorrisZapp · 02/10/2009 12:56

As far as this latest case goes, as shocking as it is I think we should maintain a sense of perspective.

If we call for death/ full life jail terms for people who take obscene pictures of children at nursery and send them home apparently healthy and happy (I am fully aware that the abuse may well affect them on many levels in their future lives so they are absolutely victims of an appalling crime), then how would we punish an abuser who, say, rapes, tortures and murders three children, for instance Robert Black, Fred West etc?

If we say that all these crimes are the same, then once you've started with this stuff, there is no incentive to stop as the end result would be the same.

Their crime is truly shocking, but it simply isn't in the league of child murder.

And the thruth is, that for all this talk of paedophiles and where they live, the vast majority of child abuse occurs within the home, at the hands of an abuser known to or related to the child.

The reason why these cases cause so much shock and outrage is because they are thankfully very rare. Sadly, abuse in the home is not so rare but very seldom causes nearly as much outrage unless murder or pregnancy is involved.

booyhoosboydoesntwearpants · 02/10/2009 14:22

a cell with space to lie down, eat, wash, and use the toilet in.

that is all they should get.

and i mean permanently, for life, 24 hours a day. with no human contact other than prison officials.

i do not agree with the death penalty.

i also do not believe that these people deserve to have their basic human rights met by the state as they took away the rights of these children. however as has already been said, we live in a civilised society and would be doing ourselves an injustice to have these people killed. they should serve a life sentence.

TheShriekingHarpy · 02/10/2009 14:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

MamaGoblin · 02/10/2009 14:41

Yes. YABU.

tykes4eva · 02/10/2009 15:57

morriszapp you do talk a lot of sense however, the child abuse was not just 'pictures' there was also physical abuse taking place, too sick and disturbing to go into or even think about.
the parents involved would not be showing the levels of distress if just photos were taken. this is the higher extreems of abuse shocking even to hardened police officers.
who knows what physical and mental abuse this can cause in the long term.
I have had 9 years of training in recognising and dealing with child abuse I would not put down on mn the level of depravity I have seen.
this is why I feel so strongly. the general public, really has no idea the level of what goes on in society.

LynetteScavo · 02/10/2009 16:00

YABU.

It is never right to take the life of another human being.

ladymariner · 02/10/2009 16:19

Yes I beleieve wholeheartedly that the death penalty should be brought back, yes I realise that attitude probably infuriates a lot of you, well sorry but I'm sick to the back teeth of these terrible things happening and the perpetrators getting away with it. All the money spent on looking after this scum should and could be better spent elsewhere, instead of looking after these "people" who couldn't care less what evil they inflict.
They gave up their rights when they committed their truly wicked, evil acts. And in answer to a much earlier post, yes, if someone touched my boy I would press the button, or flick the switch, or pull the handle. This country has gone way too soft, and the decent hard-working people are getting crushed into the ground. Enough is enough.

ladymariner · 02/10/2009 16:20

believe, even!

MorrisZapp · 02/10/2009 16:24

tykes, what I saw on the news (and I may be wrong) is that parents with children at that nursery do not know whether their own children were abused or not.

So while I totally understand that abuse is harmful regardless of whether there are obvious scars, injury etc, I think it is fair to say that in this case there were no obvious physical injuries to the children or troubling behavioural changes, indeed the case may never have come to light if the photos weren't found on that guy's work computer.

So while I totally understand the revulsion and upset this case has caused, it is pointless to suggest extreme measures of punishment for the criminals, as we would have nowhere left to go in terms of how to punish people who abduct, torture and kill children.

tykes4eva · 02/10/2009 16:33

I think that the parents whos children were inolved were told as the police have a duty of care to the victims.
maybe the death penalty is too good for them.
All i can say is that I think them spending x amount of time in a prison institute where they have access to education, satalite tv, internet, etc is not the treatment they deserve.
I really do believe these people should be punished, not just to sit and think about what they have done, because believe me these people have little remorse for their actions. and taking away a little of their freedom is not enough.

MorrisZapp · 02/10/2009 16:38

Locking somebody up is not taking away a little of their freedom, it is pretty much all of it. And they have been named in the national press as child abusers - this will effectively colour the rest of their lives.

The BBC said that Vanessa George had so far refused to say which children are in the pictures, and the police don't know who the victims are either. There was in interview with a parent saying 'I hope it's not my kid but I feel sorry for whoever's kid it was'.

PeachyTentativelyPosting · 02/10/2009 17:02

Shriekingnharoy not sure they would

I'm a amemebr and don't have isue with that

Now,if you whipped them up the hill to carry rocks with their bare hands in the sun for 20 hours then yep, but hard work not at all- indeeed I think it would be am positive skill. Plenty of value in it.

tykes4eva · 02/10/2009 17:04

IME it is only a little of their freedom, out of all the activitis a person does in a day the only freedom they have taken away is to go outside, and socialise with who they want. they can still walk, talk, access internet, education, recreation etc the list goes on. this to me is just not enough punishment.
I thought I had read that some parents did know about their babies being involved, as they had extreem reactions. either way if they don't yet know they soon will as it is their rights as victims to be informed

PeachyTentativelyPosting · 02/10/2009 17:05

Well, I know of the background of at elast onoe person on here that disagrees with you tyke, and I know that hse is very well qualified to disagree, as she is in a prison daily.

Seems to me as well that refusing access to education would be bizarre- satellite TV etc fine, but they don't all have that, education is one of the best ways to turn a life around.

Jujubean77 · 02/10/2009 17:06

YABU

Hard labour, solitary confinement, no treats or parole.

MorrisZapp · 02/10/2009 17:08

tykes, the point is that it isn't about their right to be informed. The perpetrator hasn't given that information. The children are not identifiable from the photos.

So there is no information for the police to give, rights or not.

They aren't withholding anything, they don't know who the victims are.

tykes4eva · 02/10/2009 17:15

thats even sicker then, it just shows that they have no interest in remorse as how can they 'grieve'(for want of a better word) if they do not know which child they did what to?
peachy 'Well, I know of the background of at elast onoe person on here that disagrees with you tyke, and I know that hse is very well qualified to disagree, as she is in a prison daily.'
please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this the point in having a dicussion? - to have differing opinions.

MorrisZapp · 02/10/2009 17:17

Yes, it is sick. But are you saying that people who abuse children and then send them home outwardly happy should get the same punishment as people who abduct, torture and murder children?

tykes4eva · 02/10/2009 17:38

if we are talking about the death sentance then, yes. however I'm not naive enough to think that this will ever happen. the death sentance will never come back.
the fact that they abuse children whether the children are aware or not is still unforgivable, as well as as abduction, torture and murder of anyone, not just children, so yes I do believe that the punishment shoud be the same.

MorrisZapp · 02/10/2009 17:41

Good luck tykes, I can't see that anybody in a position of authority or influence will ever agree that these people and murderers should get the same punishment.

Mamazon · 02/10/2009 17:42

Only read teh OP so apologies if repeating anything.

No a death penalty would not ever work and nor should it ever be tried.

for starters where do you draw the line? a boy of 16 having sex with his 15 year old girlfriend is technically a sex offender and could be placed on death row?

why is paedophilia worse than say murder or rape? how much evidence would be required before the death penalty was carried out? there are high profile cases of miscarriage of justice.

It is wrong wrong wrong for a great number of reasons

pagwatch · 02/10/2009 17:48

Has anyone mentioned that if you are going to have the death penalty for child abuse then many more people abusing children will get away with it.

Often time an abuser is a family member of close personal friend ofthe family. The child will sometimes have incredibly mixed and complicated feelings abouttheir abuser - including love.

Many many children do not speak up even now because they fear that their family will be broken. How many will come forward do you think if they feel that the person responsible may be executed.

Its like the 'lets castrate them' arguement. Based on the person suggesting it wanting to feel less helpless but actually likely to achieve nothing.

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