To want to bring back the dealth penalty?

[hugmeandcatchthelurgi]

Another child pornography case in the news, why cant we bring back the death penalty?

Im a firm believer in peadophiles cant be rehabilitated, why send them to jail? i think the dealth penalty is more appropriate for peadophiles and child abusers

AIBU?

This last case in plymouth really upsets me, so maybe i am more hormonal than normal!

[WobblyPig]

Orm - surely we must be trying to restore criminals of all types to being 'normal' functional and useful members of society. Prison seems unlikely to do this, as does psychological intervention.

[abra1d]

What about the people the state would have to employ to carry out the executions? Wouldn't such 'work' brutalise them?

I think it's an awful thing to pay one human being to exterminate another.

[SussexVille]

Sorry - I spelled his name wrong. It's Stefan Kiszko.

[TrillianAstra]

YABU

[SussexVille]

The messages here seem to have become a bit inflamed - forgive me, I'm a newcomer to MN, so I don't know if this is usual, or if it's purely to do with the subject.

I think that most of us would accept that sometimes people are wrongly convicted. I can remember several times in the last 20 or so years when people have been set free on appeal, sometimes many years after the 'crime' for which they were originally convicted.

I remember paticularly the sad case of Stephen Kisko (Donnie reminded us of him) - he was vilified as a child rapist and murderer, but later it was proved by DNA that he was entirely innocent. Nevertheless, he served, I think, about 16 years for a crime he didn't commit. (If I remember correctly, his time in prison included his being repeatedly being beaten up by other prisoners because of his 'crime'.)

Up until (I think) 1964, Stephen Kisko would, of course, have been hanged for this 'crime' that he didn't commit.

Someone earlier said she supports the death penalty, and so she'd be prepared to throw the switch, or whatever, for a murderer/child abuser to be executed.

But surely the real test of supporting the death penalty through thick and thin - I know this sounds harsh - is being prepared to accept that the person wrongly sentenced to die might be your mother or father, spouse, son or daughter, brother or sister.

Would you be prepared to see that happen? Even if the chance is 1 in 100,000, or 1 in a million?

Just remember that mistakes do happen.

[scottishmummy]

a liberal and humane society has to responsobly respond to devaincy and crime(as repugnant and heinous as some crimes are)
and that measured response isnt
hang em flog em
wish disease and pain upon them
isn't the answer iot really isn't

prisons and yoi are packed full of people from predominately broken damaged background,disrupted schooling,poor literacy,alcohol and drug use.bme are over represented too

these deep unsavory issues need at atategy and vision.

not hang em flog em

[Mamazon]

who has insulted you? i have challenged your argument.

But it is clear you have your own issues which are clouding your ability to make any intelligent and reasoned debate.

[OrmIrian]

" but you do have to question what useful role in society these people can ever play"

Is that the only purpose human beings have?

[hugmeandcatchthelurgi]

What about cases that are a sure conviction? (caught in act, proven child rapist etc..) thinking the latest case in plymouth.

What if the death sentance was reserved for a decided "criteria"

not cases convicted by expert evidence etc..

Just pondering out loud really..

will get ready for my arse kicking

[WobblyPig]

I cannot think that the death penalty acts as a deterrent but you do have to question what useful role in society these people can ever play. It seems ridiculous to lock people for the rest of their lives - as much of a waste of life as death. There is quite a bit of evidence to suggest that rehabilitation is not possbile for these people. Sexual orientation/ preference is very difficult to influence. I view paedophilia as a very harmful, destructive sexual preference which probably has it's origins in the childhood/adolescence of the perpetrator.
I do favour surgical castration ( not chemical) for men.

[slowreadingprogress]

'why not make them suffer as they have made their victims suffer?'

do you not see the utter ridiculousness of that statement?

Why do they need punishing - because the abuse and suffering they inflicted was inhuman and horrible?

So the proper response to that is to get someone to brutalise themselves, and by extension ALL of us, to the same degree?

Where is the logic?

You have to impose punishments and sanctions that allow all of us to remain decent and civilised human beings.

Because if you don't, then not only have you allowed the abuser to abuse, but also to defile all of us and brutalise all of us as well.

Not in my name.

[tykes4eva]

i think it more childish to resort to personal insults.
enough said goodbye

[tykes4eva]

but in a liberal society I am entitled to them.
all i care about is keeping my family safe, and these sickos away from my family.
at present when someone is convicted for child abuse they serve a half sentence, nod their heads in the appropriate places, state they are rehabilitated and are released into society where they can re-offend. I couldn't have their reoffending on my consciance, maybe you could, but to ruin another childs life is not fair.
as i have said before i have dealth with the victims of child abuse and have recieved councelling for flashbacks about a childs mutilated and dead body (i appolagise for being graphic) but maybe now you may realise my stand point.
i know that the death penalty will never come back but if all the evidance is there to convict 100% why not make them suffer as they have made their victims suffer?
I have wasted enough time arguing with you and i no longer wish to continue this discussion.
i hope you can open your mind a little bit to except that these people can not be rehabilitated, and need sever and appropriate punishment

[Mamazon]

Im sorry Tykes but your argument does read as basic and ill informed with no real understanding of the wider issues. it is childish in its very blakc and white view of the world.

right and wrong, life and death.

Life is just not that simple and there really is no "cut and dry" cases as far as Paedophilia are concerned.

[donnie]

oh - so the 'horrible disease' is a metaphor?

citing wrongful imprisonment as an argument against the death penalty is not weak - it's about the strongest argument there is. Do you not get that, even now?

and it is pointless to ask 'how would you feel if it was your child'. The law is not constructed around people's FEELINGS it is constructed around the existence of EVIDENCE AND REASON.

there is no point to this. You believe in savagery, violence and inflicting maximum pain in the heat of anger. I do not. I believe in the due process of law WITHOUT a death penalty, which reduces us to the same level of those who commit the crimes. All your comments about spitting in people's food and giving them horrible diseases illustrate this perfectly and make you sound like a thug. You are part of the baying for blood brigade. Your comments are repellant in a free and liberal society.

the end.

[Mamazon]

justice is very different from revenge.

It is perfectly reasonable and indeed normal to want revenge for anything like this but do not confuse that with Justice.

[PeachyTentativelyPosting]

This Is what the thread is about

thedeath penalty

a major argument against that is miscarriage of justice

butno even if guarantees were in place I wouldn't support the death penalty, tehre is no human way to carry it o0ut (see Amnesty) and I beleive it is an utter hypocrisy.

[tykes4eva]

like i said I dont feel the need to defend myself, and this is a discussion with differing opinions. I'm not so insecure that if someone disagrees with what I'm saying I have to resort to personal insults.
what I meant by the horrible disease comment was that I wanted these people to suffer for what they have done, to innocent babies.
and if you have read my post properly I have responded to your weak argument of 'what if hey were wrongly convicted' and have repeatedly said as have others that this is not what this thread is about. I accept that miscarrages of justice happen, which is unfortunate and sad. but if the case was cut and dry then what?
and I notice you haven't answered my question about what if it was your child, how would you feel?

I look forward to your reply, and I hope you feel as I do 'free to resopnd'

[PeachyTentativelyPosting]

There's a non fiction book by John Grisham that makes for an interesting read I think- The Innocent Man, about someone accused who came close to the death penalty in America. It'snot hgh brow or anything but nonethless thought provoking.

Poeple, tend tot hink thse days that DNA makes conviction foolproof: it doesn't, mistakes can be made and whilst it's a bloody wonderful thing it is not conclusice. Apart from procedural failures (and these have been reported)- rape froexamplecan come down to he said she said, and DNA could only ever prove sex in those cases.

[donnie]

which disease (correct spelling btw) would you like 'them' to be infected with? anthrax? cancer? leprosy? and how would you go about facilitating the infection? would you inject it into the bloodstream or choose some other method?

while you think about this you might - just might - see how childish and pathetic a comment it really was. That's not a personal insult, it's an accurate observation.

[PeachyTentativelyPosting]

Tykes if it is your child it is normal to want to kill the bastard

But that'snot justice: justice has to be separate from that.

I can imagine the horror of knowing my child was innocent and that they were to die from a misjustice, and whilst some victims of abuse can recover, we cannot raise the dead, there is no comeback there. I see people like gary McKinnon (who ahs the same disorder as my ds1) facing treaosn trials in America and think- it could happen, yes.

I also know from eprsonal experience that rape of an older eprson is not always life ending. Traumatic yes, but like heck is my life over!

And yes I do get the point of MN- been ehre long enough now I think for that.

[donnie]

so saying "maybe give them a horrible desease" (sic) is not childish? do you regard it as a mature comment? in what way is it not pathetic? try to be precise.

You still haven't responded to the point I have made repeatedly which is about wrongly imprisoned people who would be dead now if the death penalty was in place. The only sensible conclusion I can draw, therefore, is that it doesn't bother you.

Do feel free to respond though.

[tykes4eva]

fair enough peachy, just making sure you realise that this is a discussion, unlike donnie who has to resort to personal insults, I dont feel like I have to defend myself but, no I'm not a 'ranting 12 yo' nor am I pathetic.
I'm just wondering if you'd still feel the same if this was one of your children?

[PeachyTentativelyPosting]

Tykes- yes, to inform as well though,and I was informing you why I disagree with you.