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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To want to bring back the dealth penalty?

176 replies

hugmeandcatchthelurgi · 01/10/2009 15:16

Another child pornography case in the news, why cant we bring back the death penalty?

Im a firm believer in peadophiles cant be rehabilitated, why send them to jail? i think the dealth penalty is more appropriate for peadophiles and child abusers

AIBU?

This last case in plymouth really upsets me, so maybe i am more hormonal than normal!

OP posts:
donnie · 01/10/2009 20:18

clearly it's the red top reading Jeremy Kyle brigade on this thread tonight.

Original poster
hugmeandcatchthelurgi · 01/10/2009 20:20

It seems to me that our society is becoming more and more uncivilised.

Prison is not a deterrent to crime.

Teenagers hang around in groups, people carry knives, streets are not safe.

Im not saying everywheres like this but it seems to be a growing culture.

Maybe the death penalty isnt the answer but it seems that the only people suffering are the victims

OP posts:
tykes4eva · 01/10/2009 20:21

I do believe this thread is about should the death penalty be brought back period, not what would happen if.....
and I think thats a bit rude to be insulting people thats when you loose an argument as you obviously have nothing constructive to say

QueenOfFlamingEverything · 01/10/2009 20:30

Oh FFS.

The death penalty is no deterrent - look at America.

You talk about society becoming 'more and more uncivilised' - well, in what way would wreaking revenge on offenders through state-sanctioned killings be a step to becoming more civilised?

Morloth · 01/10/2009 20:34

tykes4eva "can't we just ship them down to australia????( it worked b4)????"

Yup, the wide open spaces, the clear blue seas, gorgeous beaches and wonderful weather. Truly dreadful as punishments go. We do reserve a special smile for the English with this in mind - then we come back, makes lots of money and go home and buy a giant house with a pool etc.

It is barbaric and a very slippery slope for the State to start killing people. So OK to execute child abusers? Rapists? Murderers? What about fraud which causes deaths? Treason? Speaking out against the Crown/Government? Once the door is open it is very hard to close and it will be misused, not might, will.

tykes4eva · 01/10/2009 20:35

queen bringing back the death penalty wouldn't make the country more civilised but its going down the toilet as we speak so what are we supposed to do?
as it stands (I know it would never come back) but what harm could it do if it did? This country has really gone to the dogs so why not try some experimenting?

QueenOfFlamingEverything · 01/10/2009 20:38

tykes4eva - surely you are not for real with that Australia idea?

Jeez.

tykes4eva · 01/10/2009 20:48

no I was joking

donnie · 01/10/2009 21:20

"what harm could it do if it did?"

errr....wrongfully convicted people would be killed for crimes they did not actually commit. Is that a good enough example or do you need a few more? I already mentioned two individuals who were wrongfully convicted of murder and subsequently released. Would you prefer it if they had been executed?

(bangs head against brick wall).

stuffitllllama · 01/10/2009 21:26

Queen I liked your other name, has it been squished?

I can't believe there really are people calling for the return of the death penalty. It's a terrible horror. It's murder. It's calm, planned, murder.

I'm really old fashioned, I like a bit of lornorder, even Daily Telegraph style, but this thought is dreadful.

scottishmummy · 01/10/2009 21:37

a liberal and humane society does not resort to death penalty to deal with deviancy and crime

i completely understand emption parental desire to hurt the perpetrators and BUT that base and deep instinct is a gut reaction.but such actions are not morally or ethically just

MillyMollyMoo · 01/10/2009 22:54

Why is it on mumsnet whenever there's a discussion be it prisioners, lazy able bodied people who don't want a job, single mums, it's all down to mental illness ? Do people not accept than some people are just plan bad/evil ?

scottishmummy · 01/10/2009 22:59

yes,it is wholly erroneous to demonise mental illness and assume deviancy=mental illness

however for some people it is only way they can conceptualise that deviancy must have an psychiatric reason

not so

mental illness is much maligned and demonised

SolidGoldBrass · 01/10/2009 23:16

Yes, Yabu. And thick.
The death penalty does no good at all, it doesn't prevent crimes, it doesn't act as a deterrent (indeed it sometimes encourages criminals to be more ruthless and violent ie kill all the witnesses) and its existence degrades the state in which it exists.
So far, there has been no solution to the fact that some people deliberately harm others. I am not sure there is a solution that doesn't cause more social harm than it prevents.

skybright · 01/10/2009 23:28

I don't believe in the death penalty,from a very personal point of view when my first husband was murdered it did come to light very quickly what a joke the justice system in this country is,the man who killed him was found guilty of culpable homicide and received a sentence of seven and a half years....he was out in just over three and a half.

Would i have wanted to see him die? No,it would have made no difference to my grief or the fact that my daughters will never know there wonderful father.

Coincidentally the murderer is now dead,about a year after his release he was found dead,alone of a drugs overdose.

I had very mixed emotions on that one,i thought i would find an instant relief that this piece of scum was no longer on this earth but as i wrote earlier it changed nothing in my life.

SussexVille · 01/10/2009 23:39

Donnie, agree with you about Sally Clark, Stephen Kisko and others too who have been convicted of murder but subsequently cleared - they'd be dead now if we had the death penalty. And we'd say 'what a shame!'

I just thought I'd say that cos no one else has acknowledged your point yet.

stepaway · 01/10/2009 23:53

YABU. I am a staunch opponent to the death penalty for three main reasons

  1. mistakes can be made. You don't want to kill an innocent person.
  1. For truly evil people, I think it's actually much more of a punishment to leave them in jail for the rest of their lives, rather than give them a quick death.
  1. Killing another human being brings society down to the level of murderers. it's barbaric.
SussexVille · 02/10/2009 00:02

Skybright, can't begin to imagine what that must have been like for you. Want to say something like 'I hope you've been able to find happiness', but that sounds hopelessly trite.

skybright · 02/10/2009 00:18

SussexVille,Not trite at all,very nice of you and yes i am pretty much okay now,i still miss him obviously but it was almost twelve years ago and that all consuming grief has past,i have a new partner and we had a little boy last year.

PeachyTentativelyPosting · 02/10/2009 09:56

'Do people not accept than some people are just plan bad/evil '

that was aimed at me, yes?

OK I don't demonise mental illnes: indeed I am married and very much in love with a Dh who has a severe psychiatric consistion that recurs from time to time (plenty of linked posts on here for those who think I am pulling a 'my best friend is..... ).

I don't think all crime is down to mental illness but I believe there is a significant contribution, and that there are people in our priosns with SN that has not been picked up and addressed. Look at Gary McKinnon. Once we ahve satrted to identify those people9and hopefully get it sorted way before prison and crime starts) then we can found out WTF is going on with the others.

As for 'Do people not accept than some people are just plan bad/evil '..... in all the years I have studied relevant topics including Psych, I have yet to come across anything that makes me think people are born evil. I think evil is created either by their upbringing / experiences or mental issues such as psychosis. If we're going to throw money at preventing crime we need to be aiming at the care system,social services and getting support early on tominimise the chances of this 'evil' developing. I have a disabled 9 year old who has been referred to a support team for help for people who are at risk of offending (he never has as I won't let him out my sight, but I agree he is a risk)- 8 months on from referral and severeal calls to them by school, not even a letter of acknowledgement. That does inform my belief that we are missing (as a society) the chances to intervene.

skybright hugs. I am so sorry for your loss. That sentence was far too short- beinga nti death penalty does not make me anti long and significant sentending, quite the reverse. I hope you have found some peace now, I can't imagine your loss.

PeachyTentativelyPosting · 02/10/2009 09:57

Skybright just read last post- congratulations.

abra1d · 02/10/2009 10:11

YABU.

The death penalty solves nothing. Some US states have it and their rates for violent crime are no less than ours.

CaresMildly · 02/10/2009 10:22

When a case like this comes up the visceral reaction has to be that you want to punish the people in the worst way possible, and taking away their life seems to fulfill that.

But as so many have said it doesn't actually do that - it takes too long, innocent people may be killed, the whole of society is diminished, etc etc.

So prison's original aim of punishment and rehabilitation seems to me to be completely correct. The true punishment for someone who has committed a crime is the realisation of what they have done, the knowledge of the pain they have caused. People who are sociopaths don't/can't think like the rest of us, but if they can be made to understand and live for the rest of their lives with that knowledge then they are being punished every day in the most awful way.

tykes4eva · 02/10/2009 11:04

if not the death penalty then maybe give them a really horrible desease which is painful every minute of the day.

PeachyTentativelyPosting · 02/10/2009 11:12

Cicilised aren't you tykes?

It is naturalif our children are threatened that we feel vincdictive and want towreak revenge: thats why we have a justice system that does not allow us to sit on the jury for the case.

We do not deliver pain, illness or death to criminals in this country becuase it is inherently wrong. It is also hypocritical- 'look topunish you for hurting someone, I am going to hurt you'. How does that make sense or promote rehab 9and whilst I am sceptical about rehab forpaedophiles not all criminals are those).

Lock themaway, for a long time. Give them basic but humane conditions. Keep both people safe and the moral highground.