To expect parents to keep their children relatively quiet in a pizza restaurant...?

[confuseddoiordonti]

I have just got back from a pizza (Planet Pizza in Bristol in case anyone's wondering) and me and DH were driven bonkers by the number of overexcited shrieking childen in there (we got there just before 7pm.)

I am not against children in restaurants, and I realise this is a pizza place rather than the Ivy, but I do object to them charging about and shouting where there are people there with no dc's (like myself.) I realise that some noise is to be expected and I don't have a problem with that, but I do have a problem with the same children running about, shouting and crawling around under tables. Am I being unreasonable by getting a) pissed off and b) wishing they were someplace else so I could eat my pizza in peace...?

Lastly, while I was tempted to go over and ask some of the parents to get their children to keep it down a bit, I did chicken out and hoped they'd realise the kids were too noisey themselves (they didn't.)

My teenage daughter experienced the same think in GBK the other night. Eventually the children caused a waitress to drop a tray of drinks, glass smashing everywhere! My daughter told the parents to control their kids or take them to Mcdonalds!
Shortly afterwards the same waitress came over to my daughter to tell her that these people had complained about HER! My daughter pointed out that the kids behaviour was unacceptable and that the restaurant was lucky that everyone wasn't demanding refunds!
When the parents tried to order dessert though the manager suggested that it wasn't a good idea thoough haha!

The point being, it is reasonable to expect to dine in peace ANYWHERE at ANYTIME! SOme people just don't getit and can't be told !

Having said that, after a similar experience I avoid Pizza Express at the weekend!

Hi, it's the OP here.
Thanks for the recent posts!
So relieved to hear someone saying that surely anyone should be able to eat in peace anywhere at a time they chose!

I am not expecting silence from anyone under 5, but I do not think it is reasonable to have to put up with them running about and or shouting. Thank god I am not in the minority too...

OP, I bet you had no idea that you were going to start a MN riot!

I am amused to see that this is still running.

Clemette - I had to laugh at your "I don't use reins as I choose to engage in the chasing battle to teach DS how to walk safely". If I'd 'engaged in the chasing battle', DS would be under a bus by now. He got to walk without reins when he could do so reasonably reliably. DD never ran off, so she never had reins.

Even now, it's horses for courses. If we're walking down a main road, they stay close. If we're walking through the park, they don't.

I'm also laughing at all these high-chair-phobic children. Get a Tripp Trapp!

I'm bit late coming to this thread but it isn't always children who are loud and badly behaved.

I took my dc's to pizza express on the south bank a week ago at 5:30pm. The place was fairly busy and seemed to be full of drunk and very loud adults.

We ate as quickly as possible and left. My 2yo was better behaved than the supposed grown ups!

i have been in a restaurant where parents were letting their kids run in circles around the table i was sitting at trying to eat my meal with my kids

bumping into my chair, screeching as they ran in circles around us and in and out of the other tables too

i told them off

there are people who let their kids behave like that, i've witnessed it

a bit of noise is one thing but using the place as a playground is not on

People who let their children run amok are like those dog owners who let their unleashed dog jump all over your very small toddler or all over your beautifully laid out picnic. They can't quite believe that their precious little snookums just isn't welcome.
And no one is saying the children have to sit like silent rigid robots. They should be able to come out with their parents otherwise how do they ever learn? A post mentioned that it's because you have to wait an hour for the food to arrive. Well hello? It is a restaurant and unless you phoned in advance or telepathically got through to the chef then yes a wait is to be expected. Plan your visit accordingly. If your child is going to get red mist then have a small snack ready or some other distraction. It's called PARENTING.

Hurrah for freename!

nelly, you don't know my or clemette's children, just as I haven't a clue about yours. Truth be told, I laugh at parents who think they got the parenting lark sussed ('get reins', 'get a tripp trapp' hoho) when in fact they just have different children, priorities and parenting styles.

I think in a pazza place early evening you are bound to get a whole heap of wild sugared up kids.

I must admit it drives me mad sometimes too, I have seen parents let their kids tare round starbucks till they have ended up with someones hot coffee on them, at which point the mother became interested in little johnny and started shouting at the poor bloke who the kid had run in to, (it was not the mans fault in the least) I saw a child running round and round the carvery till she almost knocked herself out by running smack it to a table, but the best was a child on heeles whizzing round woolworth who knocked an elderly woman over, I admit to laughing to the point of almost peeing self when same child went head first in to a display and it came crashing down on her (I know I am a sick bitch) I hate parents who let their kids run wild and spoil things for everyone

Blueshoes: 'different parenting styles' is it in a nutshell.

I'd say 95 per cent of children are capable of sitting at the table for a reasonable period of time. If they don't do it, it's not because they can't; it's because their parents don't think it's important. That's their choice - but it isn't fair of them to inflict that kind of choice on other people in a restaurant. That's my only point, really.

My children would very happily be a pain to everyone else, given half a chance. I don't give them the half a chance because I don't think it's fair on other people. I ultimately don't think it's fair to children either when they are capable of far better behaviour.

As a matter of interest, if you have a child who runs off and 'won't stay in the buggy' , what do you do if you don't have reins? Chase the running child whilst carrying the baby and pushing the toddler in a pram? Rather you than me.

FWIW, I don't remotely think I've got the parenting thing sussed. I just think I will be blowed if my children are going to make other people's lives uncomfortable or difficult. My world may revolve around them, but I don't expect other people to feel the same!

No one in their right minds would be that smug and think they've got parenting sussed! The point is some parents are bothered to try. They try to be socially responsible and more importantly they try to equip their children with skills which are for their own benefit. Children spiral out when they don't know what's expected of them. If you model consistent behaviour and have consistent expectations then they learn pretty quickly imho.
Just letting them run amok IS selfish because all it says about you is 'I'm out tonight and I can't be bothered so you lot will just have to indulge me'.
Er..no we don't. It's not even about the kids is it? It's about parents who don't want to be bothered at the expense of others.
No one has said the children have to be mini grown ups at all. All they are saying is it is not on to have them running around, screeching noisily causing enough of a disturbance to annoy people dining nearby.
I go WITH my children to child friendly places and they act like children but they are not a nuisance to other people. I would step in if I thought that were going to happen. I would do some parenting. That is the only point.

I know three children whose parents say they 'can't get them' to stay at the table/go in the buggy/stay in their own beds. Their nanny 'can get them' to do all of the above. Someone asked earlier where the fun was in all this po-faced parenting. I'd ask where the fun is in having children who run rings round you.

It appears to me that those who don't have parenting sussed seem happy enough to dish out patronising advice on high chairs and reins anyway. Interesting 95% statistic, Nelly. How did you come by it?

Some people might say strapping a distressed child in a high chair or using reins is lazy convenience parenting. Hey ho. To each his/her own.

Depends on the ages of the children. I would expect any 4 or older to behave properly, but ones younger might struggle. I have 5 kids and would have to prioritise which ones I expected to behave. Then again I probably wouldn't be out at that time.

Saw this up on a blackboard in a cafe yesterday: "Unsupervised children will be fed a double espresso with sugar and sent back to Mummy".

Bit of humour to sugar coat the message....

Oh blimey, blueshoes. Nobody's talking about distressed children. And how on earth reins can be described as lazy parenting beats me.

And I'm sorry, but I don't think that 'to each his/her own' is right. Fine when it's in your own home; people have a perfect right to be as chaotic or Draconian as they like in their own homes. But it's not alright in public. Children aren't born knowing this; they have to learn it. To my mind, that means they have to be removed - even if just temporarily, while they calm down- if they're being a pain to other people. It's not the parenting style that's the problem; it's inflicting it on other people.

95 per cent is another way of saying 'virtually all children who don't have SN and whose parents are prepared to put in a bit of extra effort'. Though I think you already knew that.

'Strapping' a 'distressed' child in a high chair? 'Restraining' them? Pleeeeeeeeeeease. Next thing we'll hear on this crazy thread will be that putting a child in a high chair is restraining their their human rights.

Parents need to make as much of an effort as they can to calm down their shrieking children. That's just basic human decency. It's called being considerate to others. Nothing good comes out of teaching a child they're the centre of the world & can do as they please whenever / wherever they please (that said, the efforts to keep them quiet don't always work, which is another story . Spoken from hard-earned experience eating out with a 1 year old).

(And I had to laugh about all the mentions of Greek children behaving appallingly, me being Greek that is).

Nelly, you are so up your own arse with your parenting pronouncements you don't even read others' posts about how their children react in a high chair. Even you used the word 'high chair phobic'. Aren't you now just slightly disingenuous to say that a child who is forcibly strapped into a high chair would not be distressed?

Or perhaps that child falls into the 5% - which in your quaint statistical world means the small minority of children who are being failed by their permissive parents.

Using reins could be seen as lazy parenting because you don't teach a child anything by restraining them (hmm, I detect a pattern here). It is an external constraint and teaches a child nothing about danger and how to behave whilst walking in a public place.

I suspect you and I are not that different in our outlook on how much pain our offspring should be allowed to inflict on others. Just go easy on the judgy pants and gratuitous parenting advice.

Might get a bit riled now. A quick survey of my friends reveals not one little boy under two who will sit in a highchair for more than 15 minutes. Have we all failed as parents, even given that our parenting styles range from disciplinarian to incredibly permissive?? Nelly we do have a tripp trapp at home (with no restraints and no tray) but he still doesn't sit for longer than 15 minutes
My argument that a highchair does not equal good behaviour seems to have been conflated with me letting my children run around (which I have stated I don't do). Interesting that me not forcing him to do something he HATES has become me "not being bothered" to do anything!

PS nelly you asked "As a matter of interest, if you have a child who runs off and 'won't stay in the buggy' , what do you do if you don't have reins? Chase the running child whilst carrying the baby and pushing the toddler in a pram?" Rather you than me." Surely in this scenario the child is not a toddler and wouldn't be running off (you have a child, toddler and baby here). Surely you don't suggest preschool children would be in reins???
More seriously, when I had a pre-schooler and a little baby she went on my back and he was in a sling on my front. Or does my lack of pushchair also mean I "can't be bothered"??

LOLOLOL, blueshoes. "High chair phobic" was - guess what? - ironic. I think some people - not necessarily you - do think that high chairs/buggy straps are, as Maria 2007 says, some kind of violation of their human rights.

I think the pattern here is that you are wilfully misunderstanding me. If you have a toddler who would cheerfully run onto a main road and you are also pushing a baby in a pram, surely you take whatever steps are necessary to keep the runaway toddler safe until they have reached the point where they can be trusted not to run under a bus, rather than just hoping the bus driver stops in time? That doesn't seem judgy-pants to me; that seems like basic human nature.

As I say, I'd argue that some children (my AS son, for one) need external restraints until their internal ones do the job. Others don't need external restraints because they don't run into the road/around in pizza places anyway.

I don't think you should feel judged. Our parenting styles are evidently different from one another; I don't feel 'judged' by you, though. I just think we see things differently.

Oh, Clemette, of course it doesn't.

My scenario was a child of nearly three, one of nearly two, and a new baby. The nearly-three was the runner-off. I did at one point think he'd be going to university in reins. Fortunately he has meanwhile learnt to walk sensibly.

This is all getting very silly.

I think it got silly when you claimed that 95% of small children will happily sit in a highchair indefinitely and if they don't it is a failure of parenting.
But you do score some parenting points for managing 3 under 3 and getting them all to behave in a restaurant

Hi OP, YANBU. Before I had children I disapproved of children running riot in restaurants, and now I have a four year old boy I still do.

People have a right to eat where they choose, and if you choose to go to a 'family' restaurant/pizza place/bugerplace/whatever, that does not mean that you should have to put up with bad behaviour from other people's children

I don't let my son run up & down the hall, swing on the banister, flick food & scream all through meal-times at home, so he's certainly not allowed to do it in public.

Erm preschool children are toddlers are they not? DS is 3.3 and has reins sometimes if I don't want to take the pushchair.

DS does not like sitting in a highchair for a long time if he's not occupied. However if he has a book, teddy, crayons, paper, playdough and stickers he will wait quite a while for his food to arrive. We always order a portion of garlic bread, prawns, mushrooms or something similar to come as soon as it's cooked to occupy him before the meals arrive. We always say to the server, don't treat it as a starter and wait for us to finish before bringing the mains out, just bring them whenever they are ready. If he's being particularly whiny i give him raisins or similar to have whilst we wait for the starter.

If he wants to get out one of us walks him around holding his hand. He is not allowed to walk "free" because he would just wander off, same as he is not allowed to walk "free" along the pavement.

If he has a tantrum or starts screaming or crying I either take him to the bar area if it is quiet, outside if it isn't raining, to the car if we have driven or in the porch/entrance area until he has calmed down.

nelly, since you decided to jump on the ridiculous "violation of human rights" non-point bandwagon (good imagination, maria), I would say that you have a pattern of deliberately extrapolating bad behaviour from under 5s with poor parenting, for which you lay on thick the 'helpful' advice but cannot take it when dished out.

Guess what, the world is not going to hell in a handbasket because some under 5s were misbehaving in a restaurant.

Funny how my 3 year old ds is still only pub garden material but my 6 year old dd (who was the same at his age) is such a delight in restaurants I actually enjoy going on dates with her and chatting. Both would not be strapped into high chairs, the reprobates.

No po-faced parenting needed to achieve that. Just gentle guidance and a confidence that children will internalise messages in time, even if they cannot at a younger age reliably conform their behaviours to the norm when expected of them.