To expect parents to keep their children relatively quiet in a pizza restaurant...?

[confuseddoiordonti]

I have just got back from a pizza (Planet Pizza in Bristol in case anyone's wondering) and me and DH were driven bonkers by the number of overexcited shrieking childen in there (we got there just before 7pm.)

I am not against children in restaurants, and I realise this is a pizza place rather than the Ivy, but I do object to them charging about and shouting where there are people there with no dc's (like myself.) I realise that some noise is to be expected and I don't have a problem with that, but I do have a problem with the same children running about, shouting and crawling around under tables. Am I being unreasonable by getting a) pissed off and b) wishing they were someplace else so I could eat my pizza in peace...?

Lastly, while I was tempted to go over and ask some of the parents to get their children to keep it down a bit, I did chicken out and hoped they'd realise the kids were too noisey themselves (they didn't.)

LOL, Quattro.

In fact, I am laughing at this thread now (in a rather tragic way, if people really do think that it's okay to have their children scudding around in restaurants).

I think you're describing something very different, clemette.

I do wonder, though, at all these people who appear to be unable to 'get' their children to do anything (even sit in a high chair!) And this inability is couched as moral superiority (hey, we're not making our children submit to authority; we're not inflicting some dreadful regime on them; we're not stifling their personalities with high chairs). Ho hum.

While we're at it, a little bit of submission to authority doesn't go amiss every now and then. No wonder teachers say they have problems doing their jobs!

I agree Quattro and Nelly.

Nelly, it is not unable to get our children to do anything ... that is rank exaggeration.

It merely means that with strong willed children, I pick my battles. Hope that clears up your non-submission to authority point. There is a middle ground, as always.

Shudder at visualising the Bearpit restaurants

You'd all have fits if you were over here in Spain where people go out in big family groups for meals until way past midnight and let the kids run around the tables running and screaming while the adults ignore them, drink wine, smoke, chat very noisily or even join in with the running around the tables!!

I can my child to say please and thank you, to help clean the table after a meal, to put her wn clothes in the laundry bin, to dress herself, to be kind to other children. She does pretty fucking well for a two year old actually, but sit still at the table for longer than five minutes unless there is actually food in front of her?? No chance!!!

I am a failure as a parent. Luckily for you lot we don't eat out much.

i think the 'frog marching'out of the restaurant that was mentioned by milamae in a previous post ,didnt mean that the parent missed out on the food,it just meant that the child was taken outside,reprimanded very clearly (out of the earshot of other families) asked to behave ,then taken back inside to finish the meal.Is that what you meant MilaMae?

As for 2 year olds not being strapped in a high chair. I would have been worried about mine falling on the floor. if its done at home then they wont scream when they are out...they just take it as the norm.

ds1 was horrified when one one of these little so and so's came to our house and promptly started bouncing on our settee and threw a bag of crisps on the floor. This child thought it was funny to jump off the settee (obviously allowed to at home)on to the crisps until he heard my voice.He soon stopped in his tracks.
My son didnt want him round again( and neither did i...told his mother exactly what he had done and that it was not acceptable to me or my children) DS1 was so shocked at this childs behaviour,it was disgraceful. If its not nipped in the bud early..they will do whatever they want.

'frogmarched', 'stopped in his tracks', 'nipped in the bud' - sheesh. Children are such little buggers, aren't they. Give an inch and all ...

Where's the joy.

lots of joy and pride when parents want your children to come to their homes on repeat visits.
the time for running round is the garden and the park..not in a restaurant..OMG

Nellynonorks - as a teacher (well ex teacher as of September) I am well aware of the need to assert authority. I just don't happen to think little children NEED to sit in highchairs. Just as they don't NEED to sit in pushchairs if they don't like them and can be carried in a backpack instead etc etc.
As blueshoes says I pick my battles. I don't use reins as I choose to engage in the chasing battle to teach DS how to walk safely. I don't use a highchair because I want to teach him that family meals are fun aand sociable, and battling over a bloody highchair is not going to teach him that. All well and good if you have a child that will sit in one (as DD did) but if they don't, you try a different tack. This is not indulgence, it is responsive parenting!!

What do people think about parents that bring along noisy electronic toys or books and singing teddies to occupy their child with?

I find this thread very depressing and very British. No wonder everyone finds Britain so unfriendly and unaccomodating for children. There is a such a positive dislike of their presence.

In most countries of the world this kind of sniffiness doesn't exist (unless children can behave like adults they shouldn't be allowed in public eating places).

And I'm not condoning bad behaviour, I'm just amazed that normal children's behaviour is seen as such a distasteful thing. Luckily we have no cash to eat out so none of you will be subjected to my DCs!

Shells - I love eating out abroad, for the very reason you mention. Children are allowed, encouraged and enjoyed in most places. And I think that in itself means children behave better as they are not 'tagging along' expected to be quiet, but are part of the meal time. And as such parents feel more relaxed so the children are more relaxed. I always find when I am more anxious about DD behaving herself, she plays up.

In USA, certainly when we went out in California, toddlers were often allowed to roam a little and sometimes even picked up by the owners for a cuddle, food not eaten put in a box to take home, reassured that mess was fine, and generally feeling that we could enjoy our time. I did not find this meant wild children running around. Completely the oppposite.

There has to be a happy medium though. I do agree that generally speaking, restaurants etc are more child-tolerant abroad....and I too, occasionally get the "oooh blimey, hope dd behaves herself" when we're eating out in England.....but don't kid yourself that European kids are any better behaved, or that European parents deal with bad behaviour (and by that I do mean tear-arsing round in restaurants putting other people, both with and without children off their food) Children are children the world over, there will be those who sit quietly at the table and eat nicely....(because that's what they do at home) and there will be the ones who won't sit still and whose parents can't be arsed to deal with the situation.

I'd say the only difference is likely to be that in the UK maybe someone working in the restaurant might intervene whereas in Europe (certainly here) the attitude would be "they're kids, kids go wild sometimes when they're in a public place, what can you do?"

Which is one of the reasons we don't eat out very often here either. (apart from the fact that most people here wouldn't go out to eat till my daughter has been in bed for about 3 hrs!)

All in all, comparing the UK to "abroad" I'd say that "abroad" is slightly (but only slightly) more child-tolerant. (and the downside of that is occasionally it can be too permissive and all hell breaks loose.

aly, funny you frame as it how you are proud other "parents" want your dcs to go to their homes for repeat visits. That must make you and your parenting look good in other parents' eyes then. Well done.

My dcs tend to be popular with their friends and get many invites for playdates that way. The parents seem happy enough to have them over.

I would have to agree with recent posters like pavlov, shells and clemette. Granted children have their high jinks and most parents try their best, we could do with a more relaxed attitude around children as works-in-progress, rather than see bad behaviour as automatic evidence of poor parenting at home. It is possible to gently correct another person's child without judging.

ditto most of the OP's on here. I have children and when we eat out they never behave like that. Everyone has a right to enjoy their meal and I have always taught mine to behave appropriately. When they were very small we would carry them out or walk around until they were less agitated/stopped crying etc. We never let them run amok or crawl around other diners.
You could go and have a quite word with one of the staff and ask them to say something discretely if you don't want to say anything directly.
I think some morons mistake 'child friendly' for 'I don't want to do any parenting while I'm here and I'll just make it the problem of the other diners and the staff'. I have no problem speaking my mind if it is spilling over anywhere near me.

Shineyandnew and Shells - agree with you both.
Oh, and you can't compare eating in a restaurant with eating at home or school. At home or school children don't wait often over an hour for the food to arrive. My DD sits perfectly well at home, where we eat dinner all together, and often have long chats about DH's work. She also behaves well at school/nursery.
But sometimes she can get a bit fed up in restaurants (as do I when I'm a bit tired and peckish!!!). Lets get the balance right between allowing children to move about unrestrained from their seats, as long as they stay relatively calm, and strapping them into their chairs lest they show us up!

Riven

Riven GSOH

YANBU. I would not allow my brood to run, scream, and crawl under the tables of people trying to eat. Parents involved are lazy and lack in social skills imho.

Yes alpaly that is exactly what I meant. We do it frequently and after a while our dc get fed up with being walked out of a nice cozy dining room and decide actually they'd rather stay at the table to enjoy some food,conversation and drawing(or whatever else we've brought along). To not do this just because you want to sit on your backside and inflict bad behaviour on everybody else is extremely selfish.

Re highchairs personally I'm staggered so many children seem to be highchair phobic,how on earth do you enjoy a family meal at home?

Not quite sure what's so traumatic about sitting safely clipped in a chair that enables you to sit at the same height as everybody else.

Anyhow I really couldn't care less what others do in restaurants.If you want to sit for 2 hours with a 2 year old on your lap then all power to you. Horses for courses as long as they're reasonably quiet, not causing mayhem I really couldn't care less how you choose to manage your dc when eating out.

What I object to is behaviour such as the op described which is allowed to go on because parents selfishly decide (as Freename describes) to sit back and not to parent.

The arrogance of parents who think that such behaviour is acceptable when everybody else has paid good money to enjoy their meal is just staggering. Why should people put up with it? The rest of the world does not want to hear/see obnoxious brats being general pain in the arses.

There seems to be a culture developing of parents who actually think the rest of the world thinks their pride and joy are adorable as much as they do.

Well I hate to burst their bubble but we don't. Many of us have kids,are eating out and managing our own kids or enjoying a snatched 2 hours away from our kids. We do not want to have to endure appalling bad before that is allowed to go on unchecked. We want to be able to enjoy the food that we have paid good money to enjoy. Not exactly a big ask is it?

MilaMae...Couldnt have put it better{grin]

We have eaten out in many restaurants abroad, in the US and in Europe, in different types of restaurants and cafes too. Have never seen all these children running about wandering and making loads of noise. Well - apart from in Disney character meals, and and that is somewhat different anyway.

Actually we bnever used staaps on a highchair with DD - not once she was sitting properly for length periods of time. She was happy to just sit in her chair. Had a TT at home, so it was just used as a chair at the table.