in asking our upstairs neighbour to move their pram?

[KG100]

Our upstairs neighbours share a communal hall way with us and have been using it to store their pram since their son was born. We were quite sympathetic for the first six months or so. After that we politely mentioned it was a problem for us as it was blocking the hallway but they said they had nowhere else to store it.

We let it rest but for the last few months it's been getting slightly wearing as he is now 20 months old and there is no sign of them moving on to a fold up model. We raised it couple of times over the summer, basically asking how much longer they would need it and they were non-committal.

So we asked them if they would mind us storing our bikes there occasionally. They said they wouldn't object and so on Thursday night my husband moved the bikes up in anticipation of going for a bike ride or two over the weekend.

We made sure they could still get their pram in and out but they still went completely berserk. She knocked on the door to ask me to move them and lost it when I said "no - we had agreed this up front". Her husband has also got quite angry and stated that they should have extra rights over the hallway than us.

I can't believe the way they are acting (stomping round upstairs, shouting at me and my husband when we've seen them, even though the bikes are now back in our flat) but not having children I can't judge whether it is really is an ordeal to either get a fold up pram, as we have asked, or alternatively build a shed and store their pram in the front yard. I'm sure all my nephew and nieces (six of them) were using fold up buggies by this age but they insist that they are not suitable for a 20 month old. Am I being really unreasonable? When should they be able to move on to a fold up model? And what does everyone else do when their kids get to this kind of age?

Nigella, I'm 4'11"!!! Hanging bikes up high isn't going to work if I ever want to use them! But nice try, may have worked otherwise!

You are incredibly restrained, I would have had to go out and have a fiddle with it to see if it folded long before 20 months!!

I suggest having a party with all your lovely no children mates

obviously the hall will need to be cleared for your party

and you will be considerate neighbours and turn down the music around 12pm won't you?

C&P the email he sent

I think you will never get anywhere if you are going to behave unreasonably as well. Leaving the bikes there was actually a very silly thing to do because it undermines your whole position re the terms of the lease.

If the pram is actually blocking the hallway so that movement is restricted coming in and out then it is a fire hazard. There's no need to make such a song and dance about negotiations, unreasonable behaviour, what kind of pram they should or could have or anything else. Just get the fire officer who will come round, look at the risk and speak to them about moving it.

If it doesn't block the hallway and pose a risk just leave them alone. It is hard work lugging any pram up and down the stairs every day and going on and on at them about something like this that actually may not be that important will just make your life a misery.

To be honest you both sound as if you have behaved as childishly and unreasonably as each other over something really small.

Why should they have extra rights over the hallway?
Having a child does not mean you get it all your own way.

If I were you I would make sure their pram had a little accident or maybe the door got left open and it was "stolen"

cutiosity - I don't think it sounds as if they are both unreasonable at all Yet again it's a case of parents having more rights than anyone else. Why shouldn't the OP leave her bike in the hall for one weekend? That is not the same as a pram being there for 20m.

ormirian - I haven't said anything about parents having more rights than anyone else. The OP wants to use "it says in the lease that the hall can't be used for storage" as an argument against the other people leaving their pram there. Leaving their bikes there undermines that argument, even if they have only done it once. 'If they can do it, we should be able to' is not really an argument. That is all.

The points I am making have nothing to do with any person's right over space. More just that if you share a space with a neighbour it is better for you to behave calmly, considerately and reasonably even if they are not. You may have to share the space for the next 20 years. Why make things into a big fight?

Leaving the pram there in the first place might have been unreasonable, I don't know, I haven't seen the hallway in question or how much of an obstruction it really causes. The correct and sensible thing to do would have been to assess how much of a problem it actually causes, speak to the neighbour and explain that it is a fire hazard, wait for them to move it. If they don't, call the fire officer. OR if it actually isn't much of a risk just leave them alone because it isn't causing a problem and trying to get involved with making them move it might make more trouble than it is worth.

Some of the suggestions about damaging the pram or causing it to be stolen are beyond belief and could end up with the OP getting in trouble with the police. This would be unlikely to solve the problem anyway, it would probably lead to an ongoing tit for tat situaton until one of the neighbours couldn't stand it anymore and was forced to move.

have to say, as a long-term hall-hogger, I agree with curiosity.

The couple are making things worse for themselves though, by refusing to discuss like adults.

The sensible thing would be for them to agree that the buggy goes in x months, apologise to op for the inconvenience, explain why they are leaving it there (too big to get through their front door?) and stick to the agreement.

They should not assume that because They Have A Child, that any request to move The Chariot is unreasonable.

I am moving double buggy (known as Shrek to close friends and family) after Christmas. And have told the neighbours so.

kg100 you can get pulleys for your bikes: you hook it up and then winch it up high. I used one when we lived in a flat with a tiny hallway.

curiositykilled, the OP did not leave the bikes in the hall in the same way that their neighbours have left the pram there for 20months - "So we asked them if they would mind us storing our bikes there occasionally. They said they wouldn't object and so on Thursday night my husband moved the bikes up in anticipation of going for a bike ride or two over the weekend." The bikes have been left there ONCE, they are usually stored in the OP's flat. The two flats are converted from a Victorian house, I imagine that the hall is long and relatively narrow. OP has said that pram is in the way when carrying shopping, gym bags etc. (For me, that would be every time I went through the hall.) And as has been pointed out by others, even when the pram eventually goes, will there be ride-on toys etc. stored out there? There is no real end in sight.

Bleeding 'ell! I'm not saying they did it in the same way. I'm saying they did it. Doing it at all, in any way, undermines the no-one can store stuff in the hall argument.

I second the advice to call out the fire brigade who will do a building check/check your smoke alarms etc.

It will be against fire regs - you're not allowed to have anything blocking communal areas.

I agree with the fire regs check.

Or could you leave the front door unlocked by accident and see if anyone nicks the ruddy thing.

Well everyone, looks like we were lied to all along. After all the Mummies saying "but of course it folds down, they all fold down" we've looked into it further and yes, they have now admitted that it folded all along. God knows why they didn't say this in the first place cos I know we've had the conversation more than once and frankly they would have saved us all alot of hassle if they'd folded it down every night, or even just at weekend as that's when we tend to bring bikes, golf clubs and shopping in and out! Anyway, now that we know that they lied about the folding we've told them that we never want to see it again and we won't even accept a folding pram in the hall. We were quite blunt and said that this was incredibly selfish and we will make no further consessions. Let's see what they do.

curiositykilled, Normally I'd agree with you that we shouldn't leave our bikes in the hall, because it is against the terms of the lease. But as it's only the two flats and we share the freehold, it's really just what we agree between us. They agreed to it and it was an acceptable compromise from our point of view, if we could use it for bikes every now and then, as that does make life easier for us but they just didn't want to stick with that when push came to shove.

smallorange, I'm coming to the conclusion that they refused to tell us when they would move it because they didn't intend to until he was three or four. They've always said "soon" and tried to be non-commital if we raised it.

WTF? at them consistently lying.

By the way KG have they once apologised for the inconvenience?
I can kinda see why they wouldn't want to have to bring the pram up and down the stairs every day, but if that's how they were going to play it, the least they should have done would have been a big thank you, bottle of wine or choccies kind of gesture.

As it is they sound like a pair of self-entitled selfish prats quite frankly. They give parents a bad name!

By the way I just re-read your OP. WTF at fold up buggies not being suitable for 20 MONTH old toddlers????
They were so having you on from the start!!!! They were obviously banking on the no-kids vs parents of young child emotional blackmail.

And love the husband's comment about having extra rights in the hallway. Erm, why?

An umbrella may not be suitable if they do a lot of walking though - nothing to do with him being a toddler, but more to do with the journeys they make with the pram. A pram with big wheels is so much comfier to ride in and push.

I can't imagine why they didn't fold it and put it on it's side all along though. Mine didn't fold with the seat on - you had to remove it from the chassis. But they could have folded the chassis and put it on it's side and perhaps laid the seat on it's side next to it.

The recc age range for a Happy is 0 months - 9kg. At 20 months, isn't he way over that now?

If so, are they even still using it?

Well done KG100. As others have said, any reasonable neighbour would keep pram in their flat or be super nice and accommodating about storing it in the hall.

Goodness, I'm not surprised you're particularly angry now that you've found out it does fold after all!! It's backfired on them, you probably would have been happy to have it in the hall for longer if they had folded it from the beginning. What horrible people. Good on you to say you don't want it there at all now, I hope it works out.

of course it folds down,they lied.be firm get them to shift the cart or before you know it it will be trikes/bikes and gubbins.

but for the record i dont think you should store your bicycles in the hall either.the communal halll should be clutter free and that includes your bikes. if on principle you argue for freedom of access and no clutter then take your bike in too

if they dont shift the pram - solicitor letter

Get the bikes out and the fire safety office in.

My friend has the Brio Happy and it has the same age limit as all pushchairs which is approximately 3 years although many carry on using pushchairs until 4/5.