in asking our upstairs neighbour to move their pram?

[KG100]

Our upstairs neighbours share a communal hall way with us and have been using it to store their pram since their son was born. We were quite sympathetic for the first six months or so. After that we politely mentioned it was a problem for us as it was blocking the hallway but they said they had nowhere else to store it.

We let it rest but for the last few months it's been getting slightly wearing as he is now 20 months old and there is no sign of them moving on to a fold up model. We raised it couple of times over the summer, basically asking how much longer they would need it and they were non-committal.

So we asked them if they would mind us storing our bikes there occasionally. They said they wouldn't object and so on Thursday night my husband moved the bikes up in anticipation of going for a bike ride or two over the weekend.

We made sure they could still get their pram in and out but they still went completely berserk. She knocked on the door to ask me to move them and lost it when I said "no - we had agreed this up front". Her husband has also got quite angry and stated that they should have extra rights over the hallway than us.

I can't believe the way they are acting (stomping round upstairs, shouting at me and my husband when we've seen them, even though the bikes are now back in our flat) but not having children I can't judge whether it is really is an ordeal to either get a fold up pram, as we have asked, or alternatively build a shed and store their pram in the front yard. I'm sure all my nephew and nieces (six of them) were using fold up buggies by this age but they insist that they are not suitable for a 20 month old. Am I being really unreasonable? When should they be able to move on to a fold up model? And what does everyone else do when their kids get to this kind of age?

Good grief, I wouldn't want my own pram in my hallway, never mind someone else's. And why they are carting around an enormo-pram for a walking child if 20 months is completely incomprehensible to me. I got DD into a Maclaren at 10 weeks because I couldn't take one more day of the Mamas and Papas nightmare that seemed such a great idea when I didn't actually have a child. I would point out to them politely but firmly that they are a) getting in your way and have been for 20 months and you've been very nice about it and b) infringing their leasehold agreement, and ask them what they would like to do about it. I do see that storing a buggy or pram outside is perhaps impractical for dampness and coldness reasons but I think they really need to think about how things need to change in order not to put other people out. After all, the OP didn't decide to have a baby, and the other couple did. It's up to them to manage that in a way that doesn't annoy anyone else unnecessarily. Because annoying people when you don't need to is just plain rude.

It's a fire hazard, blocking an exit.

I live in the basement of a house divided into flats and I'm the only person with my own entrance. My neighbours upstairs had a baby at the same time as me and they got a Maclaren Techno from the off and left it in the hall. I had an enormous travel system but kept it in my flat. It's bloody inconsiderate to get an enormous pram and keep it in a communal hall IMO

scottishmummy, Thanks for the video you posted. Just got round to looking at the pram to see if it folding but unfortunately it's not the same version as the one in the video. Really doesn't look like it folds down. Probably good thing though, I was just seething at the thought that it folded all along and they just couldn't be bothered!

most prams do fold down! post a description and i will look for you

any words on chassis or fabrics?

brio website have a lookey

thesecondcoming, Agreed, we suspect that there is more to meets the eye from this. From her point of view there must be something going on that is upsetting her and we don't know about. And potentially we've done something to them that bothers them. Like I've said already we've had some minor rows about rubbish, but we've tried to do everything we can to resolve them. We bought a second bin and we double bag all our rubbish because the foxes got to it and she complained. But apart from that, there hasn't been anything they've raised to us. I suspect that she is angry because our flat was done up by developers and the building work negatively impacted them. She may think we got a "free ride" of the back of it, and therefore they should get consessions (she's as good as said so before). But we can't be held responsible for whoever came before us. And in terms of consessions, they have had extensive building work done since we moved in and we didn't complain once during it and afterwards we mentioned politely that the builders had left a mess, which we asked them to sort out. So yes, maybe there is more to it, but we'd really like it if they would tell us what because at the moment it's just coming across that they think they are a special case because they have a baby, which was fine for a bit but can't go on forever.

scottishmummy, nothing on it to hint at what make or model it is but I'll take a look on the website and see if I can find it there.

When my DS was a baby we lived on the groundfloor of a Scottish tenement block and I stored my pram in my tiny hall inside the flat. You had to 'breathe in' just to get passed it to answer the front door! But that was OK because it was only in my way.

When my neighbour on the top floor had a new baby she asked us if we would mind her pram being in the downstairs hall during the day but upstairs at night. Her partner would carry the pram down first thing in the morning so that the mum could use it all day - leaving it in the communal hall when not in use. Then the partner would collect it and take it back upstairs when he came home in the evening.

Obviously we said yes and to be honest I wouldn't have minded them leaving the pram there 24/7 but I think they were worried it might get stolen overnight.

KG100 - I hope that you can sort something out with your neighbours so that there is a bit of give and take rather than them simply doing what is easier for them. I have a sneaking suspicion that if they continue to get their own way you will soon end up with child's bike/ride-ons stored in that area once the toddler starts to reach that stage.

The neighbours sound incredibly rude and unhelpful, which is unfortunate, because to be honest I can sort of see all sides here.

I can totally understand why you don't want to fight your way past some honking great fully assembled pram every day (the whole 'it doesn't collapse' thing? Just plain bloody mindedness - unless they've got some family heirloom antique model, I don't think they make prams that don't collapse down these days)

Having said that, I live in a 2nd floor flat with an 18mth old and a 35mth old. Thankfully they can now both amble down the stairs on reins, out to the car park to the car boot where I keep my pram. But for ages, when I just had the one baby, I did the lugging the pushchair up the stairs thing every day and I HATED it! I think I would have given anything to have been able to have left it downstairs.

From what you have said this isn't a conventional block of flats, but some kind of house conversion into two flats which you both individually own? Having lived in a similar conversion flat myself, they don't necessarily feel like 'shared' spaces (although obviously, and legally, they are)

Are they under the impression that as they own their flat, they also own half the hallway and can therefore leave whatever they want there? Fire regulations aside, is this in fact the case?

I'm not condoning their attitude, which stinks, but those of us who have done the pram to flat lugging thing daily, have only done so because we have had no choice according to our tenancy/leasehold agreements etc. If I thought I half owned a hallway I would be mightily tempted to leave my pushchair there (folded, of course!)

K - yes, I know you did. You said so earlier. That's why I wondered if there was a part of you that was hoping they'd be members, see it and "see the light" so to speak!

Cloudbase, we didn't think they made prams that didn't fold down either but clearly they do and upstairs bought it! If they'd bought a folding version (and kept it folded) we probably would never have said anything. But they didn't and we don't see why we should suffer because they made a purchasing mistake. They know full well that the communal hall doesn't belong to either of us and they can't block it but their repeated argument has been that they have "special" needs because of the baby, which we feel that we've allowed for. They give no indication of how long they intend to keep it there and seeing as it looks like it may be the kind of model you can use till the kid is three or four, we're beginning to think that may be their time horizon (although they won't come out and say it).

If you are going to keep your pushchair/pram/buggy/whatever in the communal hallway, you buy a small one that either folds up or doesn't take much room.

HecatesTwopenceworth, it's sad but I don't think we're dealing with the kind of people that will magically "see the light".

Let us know how it works out, this has kept me gripped all evening! I know, I need to get a life . But I do feel for you and the tension this sort of thing causes.

Fair enough KG; if neither of you owns the hallway, then they presumably must be aware that what they are doing contravenes the leasehold. It's weird tho - if I needed a favour from my neighbour (i.e to agree that I could leave my Uberpram in the hallway) I would be sooooo nice to them! I don't understand the aggression.

Niknak21, honestly I don't think this is going to work out well for anyone. Previous to this painful behaviour, we were planning on giving them a month or so to find and alternative and get rid of the old one, or whatever they wanted to do to get it out of our way. After all the nonsense of the last couple of days and his refusal to come down and talk about it tonight, we're think that we give 48 hours to get rid or take it upstairs. Our only enforcement option would seem to be to take it outside every morning and leave it in the front yard. It seems really mean, but not sure what we can do if they won't discuss it. To be honest I'd rather put up with the noise they've started making than the pram. I know they won't be able to keep the stomping up forever and can't do it at night because they have the baby and would wake him.

Cloudbase, I think the aggression is because she knows that the timeframe for favours is running out and she doesn't see why it should.

tit for tat placing it in yard is wrong.you have legitimate complaint.dont jeopardise that by carting their pram outside.it is too provocative

get a solicitor letter,invoke terms of lease

scottishmummy, I don't think either my husband or I have the heart to actually ship it outside, however much they are driving us insane. We're more hoping that the threat may make them realise that they really need to start thinking about this. My husband pointed out this afternoon that if the noise carried on we would make a formal complaint under the terms of the lease and that seems to have put a stop to that for a bit but still no hint at timeline for removing the pram.

I think if you put their pram in the yard and it's trashed or stolen then you will be at fault for that, and possibly even financially liable?

Who owns the leasehold? Can you talk to them? If it's a fire risk then you'll have much more luck approaching it from that angle than declaring war on them and trashing their pram.

give them an ultimatum move it with week or solicitor letter,detailing breach of lease

lucky1979, We would warn them first and make it perfectly clear that they would be liable if we did feel driven to move it. But as I said, it's not something I would take lightly.

scottishmummy, think that's the way to go. They are in breach of several parts of the freehold and it would severly affect them. (They use our flat roof to dry washing, run a business from their flat and obviously block the hall with their pram. It's only the last point that bothers us, but we'd throw them all in just to bring the point home.) But just seems so severe. Really wish that we could have had a reasoned discussion on this.

How big is the hall and seriously how big is the pram? Because unless you have a hall the size of a postage stamp or the pram is a 100 year old Silver Cross then I'd be interested to know really how much it gets in your way or whether you've just got your knickers in a knot for the sake of it. TBH reading this thread it sounds like you're the one who thinks you own the hall outside your flat. Is it really that much of a big deal or are you being a bit of a drama queen?

Eyeballls, the hall is a normal sized hall in a Victorian terrace. The pram isn't a Silver Cross, but may as well be because it's pretty big and doesn't fold down (and we have asked them about it folding to be sure). If they'd got a folding one this wouldn't have been an issue.

I have just done a quick look-see at all the prams etc on Brio. Yes, I am bored!

There are only 2 actual 'prams' on the website (not counting the Go here as we know it folds & it is a trio of carseat/pram/stroller). Happy & Sing. Both indicate in the dimensions that they fold!

Strollers - Happy & Sing. Again, both fold!