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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

That my ds will not be spending christmas day with his dad?

132 replies

Squiglet · 25/09/2009 22:34

OK, this is prob an issue for lots of families so interested in feedback from others in similar situations particularly.

Overview is ds1 is 9 and lives with me, his step dad and his little brother. He has spent the last 4 christmas' with us, and specifically has asked to. He has said he wants to spend christmas again with us and as his brothers birthday is on the 27th he doesnt want to go to see his dad till after on the 28th at earliest.

When his dad collected him I said that he could have him over the holidays from the 28th, and could he let me know what days etc. He was very angry and said that he was having him for xmas and that he'll do as he is told. I asked ds1 to go to room while we 'discussed' it. We dont tend to have disagreements and not infront of ds1. It was horrible, ex-p said that ds is only 8 (nope he is 9 going on 10) and that he shouldnt have a choice and that would i let him jump of a cliff if he wanted to. His dad doesnt do the magic xmas stuff with him as said there is no point as its not christmas. I always offer his dad time over summer etc too, most he ever wants is a long weekend, very occasionally (like one) was it nearer a week. He doenst take him on holiday with him when he goes (today was first time seeing him for a month as been abroad).

Anyway, I could go on for ages about his dad but that would be a looong post.

So AIBU in sticking to guns and what ds1 wants?

OP posts:
Original poster
Squiglet · 26/09/2009 22:25

Fanjolina - that is a nice suggestion actually. Not sure whether ex would go for it as he is very much all or nothing. If he isnt calling the shots and feels like it was his decision he strops.

OP posts:
Original poster
Squiglet · 26/09/2009 22:29

Oh and to clarify, I am not at 'loggerheads' with exp and generally everything is pretty civil. We both love ds very much. I guess it is a bit unreasonable that he's got xmas here again from the POV of his dad and when he lived with his dad i missed him at xmas but equally I made the most of when i had him and made it a second xmas.

OP posts:
AnAuntieNotAMum · 26/09/2009 22:29

YANBU - Your son should spend Xmas where he wants. Tough on Dad but he will just have to put up with it. Are any of the posters who are saying that child should be sent to Dad's according to when Dad wants actually the child of divorced parents? This time of year is hard enough for kids of divorced parents, with all sorts of guilt about who they spend time with, their wishes should be respected.

tootiredtothink · 26/09/2009 22:58

Thanks for coming back Squiglet - I had so many questions !

Although tbh you've just confirmed my opinion that YABU. Again, I understand your reasons as I can't imagine not being there with my kids on Christmas morning.

A compromise definitely has to be reached - your idea of ds going to his dad on the 21st to 24th seems a fairer solution that after the 28th.

How old is your youngest? If he is young enough it's easier to 'hold off' Christmas day or birthdays until ds is there to celebrate with you?

nooka · 27/09/2009 00:37

A before Christmas visit sounds a good idea if your ex and ds are happy with that. I think that balancing needs with split families is very difficult, and Christmas probably brings it to a head.
perhaps the other problem is that if one parent veers too far in one direction then it is very easy to overcompensate, you may be allowing your ds too much influence, and it sounds like your ex is wanting to feel in control.

NB My mother was like that about my brother falling off the fence - she just couldn't believe he'd broken his arm, although she feels guilty to this day that he didn't get to go to hospital for a day or two.

echofalls · 27/09/2009 00:49

My ds's have celebrate Christmas alternate years between me and their dad....been like this for the 10 years we have been apart. Everyone happy.

My ex has never been allowed to have his dd's for Christmas, we make do with Boxing Day. But sure as hell we will have them all through New Year, they return to mum just before schools go back. Not fair that she let us have them when it suits (ie parties etc) Just wish it was a bit fairer....sd's would like to spend Christmas with us now and again.

Sounds like their are issues in this case, perhaps your child is saying what you want to hear?

curiositykilled · 27/09/2009 09:26

If you read, what I was saying is that once a child is old enough to express an opinion then it should be considered. It is very inaccurate to say that children only think what they have been taught. Children do have their own opinions and feelings and they need to be considered if they are expressed. I did say that I felt neither 5 nor 9 was old enough to have autonomy over the decision but that it would be better to encourage the 9 year old to consider his father's feelings and decide on a compromise.

curiositykilled · 27/09/2009 09:27

If X will not compromise and feels everyone should just bow to his demands this is not reasonable.

Also it would be unreasonable to completely disregard a 9 year old who is expressing his feelings.

thesecondcoming · 27/09/2009 10:37

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curiositykilled · 27/09/2009 11:48

thesecondcoming - Obviously, you are completely misinterpreting what I say. I'm not sure where you are reading that I am some kind of hippy, young, earth mother who tries to be friends with her children. It is presumptious of you to attempt to patronise me on the basis of my age. We are all allowed our own views based on our feelings and experience, putting me down will not make you 'right'.

I have not suggested the children should make the decision at any stage. I have said all along that a compromise is necessary. I have suggested the adults make the final decision together and encourage the child to be involved and happy with the decision. This does involve them having input and having their feelings considered.

You can't, and would be stupid to, force a 9 year old to do something they feel really unhappy with and are expressing unhappiness about, even if they are having those feelings for a silly reason. You can however talk them through it and help them to feel happy with a compromise which takes everybody's feelings into account. This involves being firm that a compromise is necessary but that you are recognising their feelings and want them to be happy with the outcome. This does not mean you are alllowing yourself to be manipulated - any parent worth their salt can see through attempts to manipulate which I agree are very normal.

Whilst I agree that children need strong boundaries and rules I fail to see how you can prevent a nine year old from expressing any interest in where he spends christmas. I also fail to see how forcing children into arrangements that work for the adults without any care or consideration for their feelings will help to foster good relationships with either parent.

What is the benefit to completely disregarding a child's expression of feelings? IME (I do have experience of children other than my own btw) that would only undermine the contact they had with their father as they would spend the entire time in a mood about being forced to go or would be terribly upset about being completely ignored even if their original motivation was manipulation. It wouldn't exactly foster a good, or significantly improve, the relationship with the other parent and may in fact serve to undermine it.

Surfermum · 27/09/2009 12:02

I agree with you curiosity.

If faced with two options (eg a family party) at her mum's and her dad's at the same time my dsd (13) has always found it really hard, if not impossible to decide whose house to be at. Sometimes we just have to make the decision for her you can feel the relief from her when we do so.

But equally she has to be happy with whatever decision is made. It's a balancing act and will only really work if all parties involved are able to talk and reach an agreement.

We have found though that she has said to us she really wants to be with us for something, then told her mum the same thing, because she doesn't want to upset anyone - as much as we have always told her that as long as she is happy we are happy.

I really feel for her because sometimes she's between a rock and a hard place. It's one of the awful things about having two families in two homes. She can never spend Christmas with all the people she loves, she always has to be at one house, missing the other. The only way she can see to do it fairly is one year each (and that only happened when she was around 8 and started insisting that Christmas was shared).

StripeyKnickersSpottySocks · 27/09/2009 12:07

How about he has Xmas eve at his dad's? Maybe even sleep the night and you pick him up early Xmas Day morning? Does he live close enough for this to happen?

curiositykilled · 27/09/2009 12:11

Thanx, yes. I think if the OP and the child can compromise and the XH cannot the contact will not work very well. Everyone needs to compromise but it is very important that the child goes off on the contact feeling as happy as they can about it.

CyradisTheSeer · 27/09/2009 12:19

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thesecondcoming · 27/09/2009 13:42

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Original poster
Squiglet · 28/09/2009 12:40

Sorry that people have got heated about this, though i unerstand as it is very personal. But i believe is also unique to each family as the dynamics are always going to vary based on the individuals within those parameters.

Right, update is that exh did grill ds on journey home. This is likely as his dp wasnt present who wouldnt have been happy with him doing this and supports ds having his voice heard too. His dad said that he hadnt asked me for christmas and he wanted ds to know the truth?!? Ds was very confused as to what his dad meant and i made no comment other than perhaps he wanted to express what he is feeling too.

Ds is sad for his dad that he not see him on Christmas day but his words 'I'd miss being home too much mummy' and 'I can have a second christmas with daddy'. His dad said that he'd asked me for only xmas eve, which ds is happy with as they did this last year and went christmas shopping together. Then he went to his dads again from evening of 27th or morning of 28th. I chatted to ds and come up with alternatives as well following this thread (see i do listen to even if i am considered to be unreasonable). I suggested 22, 23 and 24th coming home teatime or even from 21st. Or picking up afternoon xmas day and bringing back teatime boxing day. Ds would prefer the first. I am not going to talk about it to ex till next time he comes over as feel better face to face and also gives ds time to think things over. I have asked ds to think about what he would like and we'll try and work something out.

I also re-iterated to him that his opinion it important. He knows we listen and he is a confident happy boy. He doesnt always get what he wants but his views are always considered. When it is something like this he has more of a say because at the end of the day it is about him. Also the relationship he has with his dad is loving and caring and i am very glad of that relationship and I wouldnt want to interfere with that.

Cant i also add that my ds isnt what i would call manipulative or out to hurt me or his dad. I think it is a sad view of childhood if this is how parents are to view their children

THank you for all your inputs.

OP posts:
claw3 · 28/09/2009 12:59

Squiglet - My ex took me to Court over access to the kids, despite not having any access to them for over a year (his choice not mine) He then turned up and demanded half of all school holidays, every other weekend and every other Christmas.

AND GOT IT.

Mind you, he has never followed through with any of it, which is a great shame.

My point being the kids are just as much his as they are yours and they need to feel loved by both parents.

tootiredtothink · 28/09/2009 13:56

Squiglet, those dates sounds like a much better compromise. Your poor ds is very torn but seems to be dealing with it well.

Can't blame his dad for talking about it with him though to be fair.

And if he does decide to have him Christmas afternoon your ds will realise that Christmas can be fab at his dads too.

Do come back and let us know how you get on? [nosey cow emoticon]

mrsjammi · 28/09/2009 14:05

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mrsjammi · 28/09/2009 14:14

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TheLadyEvenstar · 28/09/2009 14:32

I am in agreeance with the OP. I have ds1 who is 11 yrs old. When he was 4 and decided to call his sperm donor father by his first name because "he didn't act like other daddies" I never told him it was wrong.
And his father never acted like a dad or a father for that matter. He has seen him once in 4 years and now expects me to let ds1 stay with him, his girlfriend, and her 3 children...because it is not fair to her kids to travel to see my son.

So OP do go with what your ds wants please...he is the one who is important in all of this.

curiositykilled · 28/09/2009 16:38

thesecondcoming - Perhaps you could have been clearer that the comment was a general one by not addressing it directly to me but apology accepted

tootiredtothink · 28/09/2009 16:54

But LadyEvenstar - the OPs xdh is an excellent father by her own admission.

He doesn't appear to be anything like your ds's father. If the dad wants nothing to do with them all year and just pops up when it suits them, then I'm totally with you - fuck em to hell.

That's not the case here. He appears to be a hands on dad, has him regularly, sees him on his birthday even when it's not his day and now wants to see him on Christmas day as he hasn't been allowed to for the past 4 years.

Hopefully he'll be happy with the compromise Squiglet is going to suggest, and while I agree that 9 is old enough to have a say and be listened to, this has been going on since he was 5.

jellybeans · 28/09/2009 17:31

I would hope if me and DH split up that we could share the special days..birthdays, Xmas etc. I think it would be nice for the kids and for us to know we would always see them on these days. I understand that this is just hypothetical though and that if it happened for real there could be allsorts of bitterness etc.

TheLadyEvenstar · 28/09/2009 18:02

TTTT, I only read the first few posts - my bad! I have now re read it all and see that OP's ds lived with his father, However I do think they both need to consider what the DS wants.

On the other hand I would gently suggest to DS that he spends some time with Dad over the christmas period, I can understand him wanting to spend time with his LB on his birthday so as you say hopefully exH is open to OP's suggestion,