That my ds will not be spending christmas day with his dad?

[Squiglet]

OK, this is prob an issue for lots of families so interested in feedback from others in similar situations particularly.

Overview is ds1 is 9 and lives with me, his step dad and his little brother. He has spent the last 4 christmas' with us, and specifically has asked to. He has said he wants to spend christmas again with us and as his brothers birthday is on the 27th he doesnt want to go to see his dad till after on the 28th at earliest.

When his dad collected him I said that he could have him over the holidays from the 28th, and could he let me know what days etc. He was very angry and said that he was having him for xmas and that he'll do as he is told. I asked ds1 to go to room while we 'discussed' it. We dont tend to have disagreements and not infront of ds1. It was horrible, ex-p said that ds is only 8 (nope he is 9 going on 10) and that he shouldnt have a choice and that would i let him jump of a cliff if he wanted to. His dad doesnt do the magic xmas stuff with him as said there is no point as its not christmas. I always offer his dad time over summer etc too, most he ever wants is a long weekend, very occasionally (like one) was it nearer a week. He doenst take him on holiday with him when he goes (today was first time seeing him for a month as been abroad).

Anyway, I could go on for ages about his dad but that would be a looong post.

So AIBU in sticking to guns and what ds1 wants?

Its not about parents rights or selfishness but about what's best for the children involved or at least it should be.

i think its very fair scattykatty,if both parents have alot of input all year round. op sounds like she does all the leg work all year long,then come the holidays along comes dad and wants to play happy families.

not fair if ds wants to stay home with his family,but can't because his dad wants this. dads and mums dont have the rights anyway...its the childs

agree if dad is involved then it should be split. alternate years

fathers don't have rights, as such.

neither do mothers.

They have responsibilities.

OP, I think you have a duty of care towards your son to do your level best to persuade him that christmas at his dad's will be fine, indeed, fun.

If he STILL doesn't want to go, respect that.

I think it is the child's right to have a relationship with both their parents whenever possible, and one of the duties of resident parents (if care is not split) is to try and nurture that. I don't think it is ever a good idea to think about parents "earning" or "deserving" a right to be with their child. I've never earned a right to be with my children, I just gave birth to them, and I don't see that their father has earned/deserved anything either. Of course we both do our best to be good parents, but I think that's another matter. I just think it's not a good way of thinking.

As for children wanting what they are taught to want .... you cannot TEACH a child to really want to spend Christmas with someone who ignores him the vast majority of the time. It doesn't work. That attitude works with nuggets versus plaice, not mother versus father.

8 month old babies are easy in this way - you just hand them over and the adult who is smiling is the one who gets smiled at.

9 year old boys have long term memories. They have preferences.

"Children want what they are taught to want" - I have never in all my days as a parent heard anything so absurd when applied to a split family situation. How non-insightful...

It's the duty of BOTH parents, both resident and non-resident, to nuture a child's relationship with both parents.

Wow, interesting stuff.
I too am in this situation. I have a 2 yr old DS.
DS sees his Dad every Friday night to Saturdat tea time. (100% EXH choice, I have never stopped him from seeing DS and he only has him overnight because I did ALOT of encouraging)
I want my child to have a fantastic relationship with both myself and EXH.
So is it unreasonable that DS will spend Xmas eve daytime and boxing day with Dad.
This is something that I am not prepared to compramise on.
Why should EXH get to spend one of the most important days of the year with DS when it is me who does the majority of the parenting during the rest of the year.
It is me who is up night after night when DS is poorly, it is me who struggles to balance the finances to ensure DS has food/clothes etc, it is me who does the majority of everything when it comes to DS.

Colditz all I meant before your nasty comment is that if children are taught that it is a postive thing to spend time with their fathers then they will want to! If they are led to feel that Xmas will be 'more magical' with their Mother's then naturally they will want that.

Children do need to be encouraged that it is nice to spend time with both parents!

I don't really see how that is the most non isightful parenting thing you've ever heard what a sheltered life!

If children are taught that it is a positive thing to spend Christmas at dad's, then when they arrive there are no presents, no special marking of the day, and no Father Christmas, who has 'taught' him that Christmas at dad's is shit? It's not Mum, is it?

And frankly, if you can't articulate what you mean the first time, don't be surprised if you get shredded before you come back to explain yourself properly. Your first comment made about as much sense as a plucked fish.

I've not had the remotest glimpse of a sheltered life - how have you come to the conclusion that children want what they are taught to want?

Have YOU had experience of teaching children to want to spend time with someone who isn't very nice to them? or have you merely had experience of successfully shutting them up?

I'm sorry I didn't realise you spent Xmas with the Father too! You have no idea whar effort he'll make as he hasn't had a chance in 5 years!

I thought my first comment was perfectly clear, parents DO encourage children to want things they would not have wanted otherwise. If the child is being made to feel they will have a better time with one parent they will want to spend more time with that one. IT DOESN'T MEAN IT@S RIGHT.

And shredded? Don't make me laugh! My Mother 'taught' me to want her more than my Father through years of emotional manipulation, however, it was not reality. Now, as an adult, I can see that had she been less bitter toward my Father and taught me that it was ok to want to spend time with him I would have had a much better childhood.

Its a pity you couldn't just put your differences aside for one day of the year and have your exp over for xmas day and then your DS would have the best of both worlds.

There are enough hours in the day for his dad to come and see him, take him out etc. Why not have 'brunch' or similar with his dad then still have your special evening meal or whatever.

Can't the day can't be shared somehow?

Thats's a really nice idea Fanjolina, I do know people who do this sort of thing and it seems to work well. Go to the other after presents in the morning maybe and have your lunch there.

I just really strongly feel that children of divorced parents need to grow up being told how postive it is to have both parents and not to feel bad about wanting to spend time with the other etc. It makes for much happier children. Parents might do somethings better than the other one, but as long as the child knows that both love them and want to spend time with them and are doing their best... what else matter?

mostly I think that sounds fine for this year, but I do think it's important to remain open to negotiation in the future, because things do change. Seems to me that it's rigidity and assumptions that often cause a lot of the problems. However even when dh and I really really didn't like each other we always thought along the same lines with regard to the children which made that whole exchange easier (except for the brief period of time when he wanted to emigrate and thought that we could somehow go on having shared care over the Atlantic ). If you and your ex have different opinions on how to bring up your children, share time etc it must be incredibly stressful.

My almost SIL has her dd every other Christmas and I know it makes her very sad not to have her every year, but I really think these sort of compromises are just one of the many consequences of relationship break up.

We did something like that Fanjolina, dh had the children whilst I got our special meal together one year, and then for another he had the children in the afternoon after my parents had come for lunch, and then we all watched a movie in the evening. It was painful at times, but it seemed to work for the children (and in any case it was a lot less painful than the couple of years before that when we were "together")

Let him stay with you, he said he wants to and as his father makes little effort then surely it's best all round for him to spend Christmas with his family and not just someone that is around as more of a token? I'm all for being resonable but sometimes you have to to what's best for your children. Sounds to me like your ex is just being a spoilt brat over it anyway.

I do think it's fair to have alternate Christmases at either parent's IF both parents are putting 100% effort into bringing up their child/ren during the rest of the year.

However, it doesn't sound like this is what is happening here, so I would be inclined to go with what your ds wants and let him stay home.

FWIW I have tried very hard with my ex-h over the years, driving our ds to my xh's house for visits (110 miles away) and collecting him afterwards, always alternating Xmas, inviting xh to Scout concerts/parents' evenings etc etc.

He, in return, has repeatedly let ds down, promising visits and not turning up, promising holidays and not fulfilling his promise, and one year, when it was his turn to have ds for Xmas, phoning on Xmas EVE to say he wouldn't be coming. Now he hasn't seen him for 8 weeks and no mention of when he might decide to pitch up again. And he pays no maintenance at all.

It's xh's turn to have ds for Xmas this year and you know what? I'm extremely tempted to just say ds is staying with us this year.

Maybe my viewpoint is biased due to my own experiences. But life is not always a Hollywood film where xps can happily share special days and be jolly good friends about it all. Sometimes it's not possible to be fair, if the other parent is determined not to play ball.

Whether a 9/10yr old has the "right" to choose to spend christmas with his mum or dad is not realy the issue.

Does your son want not to spend with his dad because he has not seen him for a month. Could arrange for him to build a stronger relationship with his dad over the next few weeks and then discuss how your ds is feeling then.

I didn't see my dad at christmas for years as he could not be bothered at any other time of the year to see us.

If your xh wants to spend time with ds on 'special' days then he has build the relationship where your ds wants to as well, otherwise in a couple of years your ds won't want to see him all.

Fanjolinas idea is a good one ie share the day. If that is practically possible (ie parents live near enough) it is a good solution.
I feel arrangements could be alternated in a positive way for the childs benefit
For example:
Child sleeps at one parents one year wakes up there, opens pressies. Child goes to other parents in afternoon, sees more family gets more pressies, child has 2 Christmases!
Next year alternate ie Child sleeps at other parents, wakes up there, opens pressies. Child goes to other parents in afternoon, sees more family gets more pressies, child has 2 Christmases!

We share the day and always have with dss. One year we have him Christmas eve and Christmas morning until about 10am at which time we all get in the car dss, ds me and dp and toddle off over to dss' mums house where we spend an hour or 2 with them all. dss' mum has 4 other chidren with her dp. Then the next Christmas we pick up around 10am on Christmas day around the same time stay for a while then head home with dss for the rest of the day and boxing day. This way we share the day and it works very well, though I suppose you all have to get along to do this. We have been doing this for 8 years now dss is 15 the eldsest of 6 altogether with both families. Its absolutely great and works well.

Just to add a little, dss never got to choose his parents decided between what was best for all. dss was a child of 7 and his parents with consultation of partners involved decided as adults mwhat the plan would be.

OK, am stil reading thread but just felt i should clarify as posters seem to think ex doesnt see ds1 as he doesnt recall his age. He sees him every other weekend and when his dad can during school holidays. Sadly, though that option is there his dad rarely takes it. He also spent easter day with his dad.

Also, long story but ds1 lived with ex dp for just under 4 years, so they have as good a bond as could be possible given the circumstances.

He is 6 months off 10, the age at which a court of law would take serious account of his POV. Ex and I rarely disagree and yes I can empathise that it is upsetting for him that ds doesnt want to spend xmas with him. Ex dp step daughter only recently spent xmas with her own dad but she is considerabley older, and again this was her decision.

The age forgetting thing i founbd quite shocking but not surprising tbh. When ds stays with his dad he is often extremely tired as his dad treats him like his mate, staying up very late, movies at 10pm curry at midnight (that particular one was 2 years ago mind.. but then he was only 7, but he still keeps him up late) . Also ds broke his arm with his dad. Fell off a horse, wasnt even taken to hosp and spent the entire weekend being made to try and use arm being told it was nothing. Thank god he wasnt more seriously injured. More recently he wanted to slice of a wart ds had on his elbow.

Despite all thism i know ds and his dad love eachother very much and have fun together. But, i listen to my ds and he is very clear about what he wants. I am thinking of offering his dad the 21 to 24th instead as he celebrates the winter solstice on the 21st so they could do their festivities then. And it is only since i had ds2 that this has become an issue for his dad.

Will read rest of thread and see what it says.

right, finished reading.

Right, exp attitude is 'ds will do as he is told' regardless of what he wishes. This has and does include visiting a step grandmother who is extremely unkind to him and upsets him on every visit and upsets ex-p. But he says that they nag him to see ds and he cant say no.

I have every obstructed access, actually been very encouraging of it. Over the weekend it has come to light that that his dsd has spent the last 2 years away and xmas which means they dont have children at home now at christmas and have a bedroom for him to sleep in. It just feels a bit like that he wants him there for his needs. If he is so keen on doing the extra things with him why doesnt he take him on holidays when he goes? Ds does sports on a sunday and is part of a club but because his dad felt that he was being told to take him he refused to take him, though he does now. Thing is his initial reaction is always, xxx is telling me what to do and its like he thinks it is all about him when it really isnt. IT is all about ds. I never ever bad mouth exp to ds. Actually i dont really badmouth him at all usually. He isnt a bad person, he is thoughtless and selfish but not bad. In terms of thoughtlessness for ds's 9th birthday he bought him war of the worlds. Cue recurring nightmare

On a side note of couse ds2 wants his big brother around at christmas too. And ex used to have him on boxing day except for last year. It only changed as ds2 was born on 27th.

I dont go overboard on the magic stuff and ds1 has actually told me he's worked out some of the santa stuff and that we help FC out, bless him.