That my ds will not be spending christmas day with his dad?

[Squiglet]

OK, this is prob an issue for lots of families so interested in feedback from others in similar situations particularly.

Overview is ds1 is 9 and lives with me, his step dad and his little brother. He has spent the last 4 christmas' with us, and specifically has asked to. He has said he wants to spend christmas again with us and as his brothers birthday is on the 27th he doesnt want to go to see his dad till after on the 28th at earliest.

When his dad collected him I said that he could have him over the holidays from the 28th, and could he let me know what days etc. He was very angry and said that he was having him for xmas and that he'll do as he is told. I asked ds1 to go to room while we 'discussed' it. We dont tend to have disagreements and not infront of ds1. It was horrible, ex-p said that ds is only 8 (nope he is 9 going on 10) and that he shouldnt have a choice and that would i let him jump of a cliff if he wanted to. His dad doesnt do the magic xmas stuff with him as said there is no point as its not christmas. I always offer his dad time over summer etc too, most he ever wants is a long weekend, very occasionally (like one) was it nearer a week. He doenst take him on holiday with him when he goes (today was first time seeing him for a month as been abroad).

Anyway, I could go on for ages about his dad but that would be a looong post.

So AIBU in sticking to guns and what ds1 wants?

I'm sorry, but I still think it is the child's right to choose, as does the law, in fact.

The OP is not shutting him out of her DS's life, his Dad is doing a good enough job of it himself. Why should a child be forced to spend any day, let alone Christmas day, with someone who they hardly know, and who they are probably well aware don't really care that much about them?

I'm bloody glad some of you weren't my mother when I was growing up.

My dad was shit, and sometimes wanted to see us and sometimes didn't. But the one thing I give him huge credit for was that, if we didn't want to see him, he respected that and just waited patiently for us to want to spend time with him again. He accepted that it was his twattishness that meant we weren't wanting to see him.

You cannot underestimate how much a marriage break-up can fuck up a child's psychology for the rest of their lives, and it is imperative, IMO, that you trust their instincts for self-preservation and let them be in charge of how much time they spend with each parent.

I can't see evidence that the OP's DS doesn't have reasonable amounts of access to his father.

What I am reading is that since the boy was around 5yrs old the OP has been creating a magical Christmas and limiting the access the Ex P has to his son on those days. IMO this creates a situation where the DS is choosing the magical Christmas, and has not been encouraged to share those days with his Dad. Now the child appears to have the opinion that Dad at Christmas wouldn't be as fun as christmas with the OP.

The OP says the dad doesn't know his DS's age, or even his name properly. Doesn't really smack of a dad who has much interest in his DS, except when he's going to get the glory of present giving.

She accidentally said that Dad didn't know the boys names, and posted a correction stating she meant age.
The Ex P said 8 instead of 9 at a moment of extreme stress when he had just been informed that his son didn't want to see him on Christmas day.

I think getting your child's age wrong in an argument is not a totally unreasonable thing to do. I know I've got my children's ages wrong at times (and mine quite frequently ) The OP said she mistyped and muddled the age and name (forgetting your child's name would indeed show a problem, although my mother frequently got me and my sisters names muddled up, and still does).

As I said we can't know the circumstances of this particular family, but in principle I think it is totally unreasonable to insist on always having your children with you for Christmas when you have slit from their other parent, much as I understand how horrible it is to be apart (indeed this is why I think it unreasonable).

Oh and Flamingo as my children tell me frequently that they think I am the best mother in the world I don't think you are in any position to judge whether or not they are unfortunate in having me (I am sure they will change their minds about this as they grow up). They also think their dad is the best dad in the world, and I think that if we hadn't managed to make our split as amicable as possible the chances of becoming a family again would have been about nil. Fighting over the children is the worst thing that parents can do for them IMO (except where there are violence, abuse or neglect issues of course, when I woudl hope that any parent would fight for their child).

The OP is giving us one view of this, we aren't getting both sides. However in that one-sided view what we see is a father not being given the opportunity to have their child at the best time of year for them to bond.

It is in the long term interests of the child that they have a relationship with their father. He may be a total loss as a partner but he has been maintaining contact with his son for years when many fathers just give up. That doesn't suggest someone who doesn't care, it suggests someone being squeezed out of their son's life by a mother putting her feelings before her son's interests. The boy is being trained not to want to spend time with his father.

There is probably a lot we aren't being told but however bad a father this man has been he is still being treated badly by the OP. If this situation was reversed would anyone say a woman should be denied having her son for 5 Christmases in a row?

OP, I think YANBU.

If DS wants christmas at yours, at the age of 9 he is old enough to make that decision. Maybe renegotiate on him going to his dads boxing day though?

I was a little older when my parents split up, but I was allowed to make decisions over things like this. You cant make a child unhappy for a parent.

This will be my first christmas as a single parent, and the boys are with me. My ex doesnt even like Christmas and doesnt celebrate it - no way are the kiddies going there for Christmas and luckily ex agrees. Boxing day is a big thing in his family (In the 6 years we were together he spent every Christmas day with my family) so he'll have the boys for a few hours then (or longer if he doesnt get drunk, but thats up to him)

My kids are only 3 & 1, so I have had to sort this out with ex myself. It seems a bit wierd that after 4 years your ex suddenly wants him Christmas day - has his family got something big planned? I agree that maybe talking about it with him, instead of telling him could have been the way about it though - he should have been chatted to before DS was told yes IYSWIM?

Sorry, although I can totally understand why you want him with you on Christmas day YABU.

You say he's always asked to stay with you - I assume then that you've never let you exH have a say? I think you've been lucky to have him with you this long tbh.

Of course he is going to want to stay with you - children do want to be 'home' for Christmas to ensure Santa knows where to bring their toys .

Think the problem could also be is that you're not even willing to give your ex Boxing day as a compromise? Surely the best way to go would be for you to do as Frizbe does. If you want ds with you for Christmas then his dad could have him Boxing day and New Year?

I know you're also concerned about missing his brothers birthday but surely a compromise should be made. If your ds knows you're not happy with the situation then he won't be either.

You're all right if the OP is actually restricting access. All I've seen so far though (and I agree we're only having half the story) is a mother who is protecting her son's right to choose:

"I always offer his dad time over summer etc too, most he ever wants is a long weekend, very occasionally (like one) was it nearer a week. He doenst take him on holiday with him when he goes (today was first time seeing him for a month as been abroad)."

"And when i said he'd have him for birthday weekend he said he didnt care about that.."

"He has seen him for every birthday btw, even if he's with us his dad visits. He wont extend that back to us though when ds is with him.. "

She said she's had him every year for Christmas because that is what he has wanted, not because she hasn't let him go to his Dads (and yes, she may be lying but I'm going on what she has said).

Nooka - I don't wish you weren't my mum, I am glad that my mum hadn't had your beliefs when I was growing up, otherwise I'd have been forced to go and see a shit who didn't give two hoots about us except when he wanted to play at being dad. Your DC's dad is clearly far more responsible and caring than mine was, and probably there wasn't an issue when it came to putting an adult's desire over a child's needs and rights.

I'm afraid I think YABU.
Of course your ds is going to say that he wants Christmas with you because a) you're the one asking him and b) he probably can't remember having Christmas with his dad.
The law does take account of children's views, yes, but it makes the ultimate decision as to what is in the child's best interests.
Could there be a comprimise, with one of you ahving the days up to Christmas and the morning and the other the Christmas dinner and boxing day? And with an agreement that this arrangement is reversed next year?

I think on this occasion I would say stick to your guns on this if it is what your DS wants

HAve i missed that ds's father lives a million miles away? if he doesn't then split the day up between you. Aletrnatively offer to let him take him to the pato etc in the run up to xmas

if he really doesn't make the effort to maintain regular contact (that isn't entirely clear to me), then it isn't unreasinable to expect him to 2earn major holidays like xmas.

On the other hand if he is showing more of an interest then its your responsibility (to your son) to facilitate that.

i'm not unsympathetic - i have a shit father but the dreadful state of our relationship makes me feel worse than if we had some kind of reasonably functional relationship and i'm an adult and can think it through rationally.

Half of me (genetically) IS my father and it does my self image no good to think taht he is a complete fuckwit!

If he hasn't seen him for a year it isn't reasonable to send him for Christmas. However-I don't understand why he hasn't seen him for a year. If the father just doesn't bother, even though you try, then YANBU. However if you are making it difficult for them to maintain a relationship then YABU. We would need to know more about it. You ex should be seeing him on at least a weekly basis and speaking, emailing him in between.

OP i can't see why your ds cant see his dad on xmas day, even if its just for a couple of hours to receive his presents, I think you should be encouraging him to do this, so i am afraid i think YAB(slightly)U, i agree with what Kew says

Do waht your ds wants. I have a son who will be 10 on December third, so very similar age, and he is old enopugh to mak these decisions now

In fact after reading your post again i think YABU, you should be encouraging a relationship with between them, but sounds to me like its convenient for you to not encourage it, and play the 'oh well its ds decision' card

think how you would feel if your ds decided he didnt want to spend xmas with you? or if he decided he didnt want to live with you? you wouldnt be saying he was old enough to make up his own mind then, would you? certainly not!

I wonder if his dad is only interested in Christmas because he wants to play the family man in front of his side of the family, and whether that's why he's not bothered about DS's birthday as they won't be around then.

Just a theory.

Exactly what I think, DMmad.

Although I do agree that the OP should be encouraging and facilitating a good relationship between her DS and his dad, but I just think she shouldn't be forcing it.

OP, how far away does your DS's dad live? We go to my PIL for Christmas breakfast after stocking opening, and then onto my parents for a late lunch and the rest of the day. Could your DS do that? Spend the morning at his dad's? Or the afternoon? (but, only if he wants to - I do understand that he would rather spend the bulk of the day with his brother and you).

Well thats just speculation, what if the father wants to see his son on xmas day because he loves him, and because its christmas, and a xmas day without seeing your dc must be pretty miserable, and knowing that your dc doesnt want to spend xmas day with you must be pretty crushing too

I am sorry but if my child ever told me he didnt want to see his dad on xmas day i would questioning why and encouraging him to do exactly the opposite, and i thinks its pretty selfish of the op not to do that.

Easy solution, your ds spends christmas eve at his dads' and you pick him up around 12pm next day. That way you still get to do christmas lunch etc with ds, your ex gets to wake up with his son christmas morning and give him his gifts etc, have a special breakfast.

YABU to refuse to consider it, at 9 the child will always be swayed by whoever is making the most attractive offer. I doubt this is the first time in 4 yrs that your ex has asked about christmas.

Yes, actually I agree with you VT now. It was just the 'you should make him go' comments that really wound me up.

The OP ought to be discussing this with her DS properly and fairly.

Again, something I really valued my mum for was that, even though my dad clearly was a complete shit, she never, ever slagged him off to us - she remained totally impartial. Must have been such a struggle for her.

The lad is 9, going on 10.... There is plenty of time for the Christmasses to be evened out....

Why does everything have to be the way Parent1 OR Parent2 wants it, and right NOW, regardless of the boys wishes.

When the lad has very clearly, reasonably and politely stated what he would like to do, it'd be unreasonable not to respect those wishes. It is not that the OP is telling the Ex anything, merely what her DS has told her he'd prefer. If the DS hadn't said anything, then it's a whole different kettle of fish.

Christmas is all about kids. It's not like the Ex won't see him at all... He just needs to be patient. Boys are all about Mummy for the first few years, let boys be boys.

FGS, if he's forced to do something now against his wishes, it'll be the subject for his therapy in the future.

I wouldn't force a child to do anything they didnt want to FB, my ds1's father was a shit, he didnt show much interest in him when he was young, but i never ever bad mouthed him and always encouraged ds1 to see him, he would go months without hearing from his dad, but come xmas, he would always want to see ds1 on xmas day, i never ever played the 'oh well you havent been in touch for months blah blah' card. I encouraged ds1 to go see him.

They have a very close relationship now, ds1 is 20

OP unless your ex is a horribly abusive father, why are you not encouraging your ds to see his xmas day? of course your ds is going to say he doesnt want to, but i think its because he knows thats what you want, and he wants to make you happy. What child wouldnt want to get extra presents from the other parent at xmas? one thats been influenced and discouraged not to, i would say

'Boys are all about Mummy for the first few years, let boys be boys.'

My 3 yr old would drop me in a heart beat to spend time with his daddy, boys are only about mummy, if mummy wants it that way