to thinks if a school has issue with my parenting skills, that they contact me first?

[mixformax]

I recently made the (long-mulled-over) decision to leave DD (13) and DS (12) alone at home overnight with close supervision by friend and neighbours. Both children are sensible, trustworthy and used to being left for a few hours at a time.

One of DS's teachers learned of this and, without making ANY attempt to contact me, or any of the other emergency contact numbers (4 in total) called in social services which resulted in a plain clothes DC turning up on doorstep and questioning DD.

Also DS and DD attend different schools - DS's school had the cheek to email the other school and alert them of the "problem". Thankfully this school seems to be a bit more in touch with the pupils and actually listened to DD when she told them that she was perfectly happy with the arrangements.

But WHY couldn't DS's school even attempt to listen to him properly before jumping to (very wrong) conclusions of neglect?

I'm with SGB on this. Ridiculous fuss - it is down to the parents' judgment. That's what the law says, no matter how many interfering busybodies pretend different (am thinking of organisations like the NSPCC and the stupid 16yo advice, not individual posters)

Sadly schools aren't allowed to use common sense these days, they have to go through procedures. Which might be very sensible if there are real concerns about abuse but for heaven's sake, this is not anywhere near this category.

The authorities, from central government down, treat parents as if we are all feckless and stupid and need to be bossed around by higher powers. It really is a nanny state!

(Personally don't think I'd have done it, but they are your kids, not mine, and I don't have a 12 or 13yo anyway so harder to judge.)

The school did the right thing. Remember after baby P and other cases, schools are on the lookout for any kind of mistreatment or neglect.
The same goes for pre-schools, nurseries and childminders ITS THE LAW.
If anything happened you would have been guilty of neglect...end of.

Cor, when my DSS was 13 he would sleep through an earthquake, shuttle launch, explosion in the garden, roof caving in (ok, slight exaggerations, but I'm sure you get my drift)...actually he still would

Sleep is what teenagers are programmed to do imo.

Legally its not until they are 16yrs old that they can be left alone. But then you would worry about the 'facebook party hell'

YABU - the school have a protocol to follow here and are not allowed to make their own judgements. They are LEGALLY OBLIGED to inform child protection services when they consider a child to be at risk. This is the first thing that they do, they do not call parent's first and ask if it will be okay(!)

At risk is at risk whether this is at risk from another person, at risk to themselves or are in a risky situation (like being left home alone).

This is quite murky as there is no law around when children can be left alone so they have to consider worst case senario and act accordingly.

They are also obliged however to provide you with a copy of policy documents but this does not come into effect until you make a request in writing and they have a certain number of days to get back to you. Check the data protection website for details.

If this was to happen again (regardless of how right or wrong I think it is) then you would be wise to inform the school first and make them aware of the things you have in place. Consider the recent cases of children being left for a week while mum went on holiday - these are the cases that scare school and cause them to act in the way they did.

I'm still waiting for the big AIBU by stealth reveal where the OP tells us where she was all night.

I was practically living at my bf's (who had long since left home himself) when I was 15. But for the reasons stated by thesecondcoming there was no way my mum would have left me overnight in my own home. We didn't need Facebook to arrange housewrecking horror teen parties
Actually thinking about it, how did word get round in those days? Plenty of us didn't even have home phones, and mobiles would have seemed like something from Star Trek...
I digress... I'm still here because I'm nosey and want to know what mixformax was up to

Ripeberry, that's not accurate. There is no set age for it being ok to leave children on their own. Directgov has an overview here about it, the summary of which is "There is no legal age limit for leaving a child on their own, but it is an offence to leave a child alone if it places them at risk." It depends a lot on the circumstances and the child(ren) in question.

It is treading a very fine line really IMO. Is it so important to be away leaving your two children alone for not just a couple of hours but a whole night. Priorities here. Or why dont you just take them with you why is it important that they are not with you.

I don't get this.

How did the school know that your kids had stayed at the neighbour's house and not with you?

Otter, 20 odd years ago I had a mad party at my parents' house (300+ people, police closing road off, house wrecked, etc) so that was well before Facebook (and mobile phones ). And my poor parents were there - they locked themselves in their room with the dog!

"Legally its not until they are 16yrs old that they can be left alone"

This seems to crop up every week on Mumsnet.

THERE IS NO LEGAL AGE LIMIT FOR LEAVING A CHILD ALONE

However, if you leave a child/young person alone in a situation where they could be injured, and they become injured, you could be prosecuted for child neglect.

But if we judge that our child is responsible enough to be left alone at 5, then we can't be prosecuted for doing so.

OK?

OP is clearly trying to get attention. Why bother saying that the kids were left alone and then saying later that in fact they were with a neighbour.

It's like she just wants us all to say 'ooh that's terrible' and then slowly reveal all the reasons why in fact we are horrid McJudgies.

No doubt there's a reason for her overnight absense that will change everything again.

I can't be arsed with being tricked into looking judgemental.

YAB completely U - the school had a duty not to inform you and to inform the other school and SS. It's not their place to judge your parenting which is why they involved SS who's place it is!

Rindercella I wasn't there, honest

absence - ouch

It is not strictly true to say that there's no legal age when you can leave children. There is one by default, in that you reach the age of majority at 16 in scotland and 18 in england and wales. It is unlikely anyone would consider children between 16 and 18 as too young to be left overnight, they perhaps could if a parent left them whilst they went abroad but even that is unlikely as a 16 year old can live out of home although it is likely they would need support from SS to do this. It is a rational assumption based on this to say you would be reasonably safe to treat a 16 year old as an adult but not foolproof.

You can be prosecuted for leaving a 5 year old alone, you can be prosecuted for leaving a 13 year old. You might decide it is safe, if you are reported and SS investigate and decide it is not safe when you maintain it is then it is their opinion which will be upheld not yours as a parent.

This will call into question your ability to make decisions as a parent and whether you should be allowed to care for your own children. I can't imagine why anyone would take the risk. It is strange to assume that your own judgement as a parent will override SS. They might agree with you but they might disagree, in the light of baby P and all the paranoia about abuse and neglect I would say it is likely they would err on the side of caution in a situation that is unclear.

Absolutely social services should be contacted over any parent who would leave a 13 and 12 year old alone in a house overnight. That IS neglect. It is appalling.

Basically the school did the right thing. They have a duty to report to SS if they suspect any child is at risk in some way. They don't have any duty to run it by the parent first!

It's a highly questionable decision to leave children that age overnight, therefore right that it be questioned/investigated. IMO.

The school didn't call ss / police with the intention that the OP be carted off to jail and the children put in a home!

They called because they receive news that the children may be at risk - and it is then thier responsibility to pass that on and get it checked. The kids were fine, police / ss reliase that OP is not beating / starving them, all calms down.

It was a check - not a prosecution, conviction and sentence!