to thinks if a school has issue with my parenting skills, that they contact me first?

[mixformax]

I recently made the (long-mulled-over) decision to leave DD (13) and DS (12) alone at home overnight with close supervision by friend and neighbours. Both children are sensible, trustworthy and used to being left for a few hours at a time.

One of DS's teachers learned of this and, without making ANY attempt to contact me, or any of the other emergency contact numbers (4 in total) called in social services which resulted in a plain clothes DC turning up on doorstep and questioning DD.

Also DS and DD attend different schools - DS's school had the cheek to email the other school and alert them of the "problem". Thankfully this school seems to be a bit more in touch with the pupils and actually listened to DD when she told them that she was perfectly happy with the arrangements.

But WHY couldn't DS's school even attempt to listen to him properly before jumping to (very wrong) conclusions of neglect?

I think that the school did the right thing in contacting SS but I do think that they should have tried to contact you first/at the same time to say "We have concerns regarding the welfare of your dd/ds. It is not our role to investigate this any further but to pass those concerns on to ss which is what we are doing."

Christ this thread is popular!

To add to my comments above:

-I was left overnight 4 nights a week from the age of 12 to 15; my gran worked in a care home and worked nights. It was all a bit hush hush with the neighbours as I think it would have been frowned upon. Now I managed to get through without burning the house down etc, however it was very lonely, and a huge responsibility at that age. The lights fused one night (had overloaded a plug so could iron at same time as listening to radio and watching the telly) and was shit scared. I left home at 16 anyway and coped on my own, however there is a marked difference between a young teenager and an older one.

-I would leave my 13 year old dd on her own in the house all day, however I wouldn't at night. It might make no sense but there is a big difference in my eyes.

-The OP in a post earlier states that "SS notified the police who turned up on doorstep at 6pm (plain clothes) WDC then phoned me". So presumably the kids were on their own from before 6pm with the intention of leaving them overnight (even though that didn't happen in the end). That is a really long, long time to be left alone.

-I think thatt he kids should have been made to stay at the neighbours when it was first offered, and if this was not possible for some reason the OP should have cancelled whatever she had planned to do.

I'm firmly of the let children be independant camp but even I think this was a decision that required further scrutiny - and that's exactly what happened. The school were right to share their concerns and it was appropriate for the children's safety to be checked on. That's all that happened - nobody has been imprisoned over this.

I also find it highly irritating that the op hasn't said where she was. It does make a difference actually - if you were off doing something say for a family member that had to be that day and so no other childcare was available then that's one thing but I don't for a minute think it's that. I think you were off on a planned jaunt and I think that's why you don't want to say - because people could argue that you should have postponed or replanned if nobody was available to stay with your kids.

I agree - the OP should say where she was.

I can't judge the school unless I know what the school was TOLD by the kids

and I need to know what you were doing so I can judge whether you have a right to be indignant

I'm wondering where the OP's 3rd child was?!?!?!

agree with getorf and northern

thikn the fact this was something that was planned, enough time to discuss with neighbour for firewatch etc means there was enough time to organise a proper sleepover

why not just arrange for the children to stay with the neighbours?

what was the benefit of them being alone in teh house?

the reason for leaving them does matter

IMHO I think that if you have never had anything bad happen to you or yours you can think people who are more of a worrier are ott, but I bet a lot have them has had a bad experience, whatever it may be, and as a result are much more cautious than others.

COV - I was also wondering that

No i personally would not do that, if my oldest was 16-17 than yes i would depending on maturity of course leave the youngest with the oldest one.

"OP was not about whether you all thought IABU to leave children alone! I was looking for opinions on the schools handling of the issue but then I accept that threads can deviate. (Makes for interesting/inflammatory reading!)"

What a ridiculous thing to say. If you want us to decide whether or not we feel the school acted appropriately we are of course going to voice an opinion on what the school were reacting to.

Otherwise you could start a thread saying "were the school unreasonable to call SS over giving my DC a fruitshoot" and you'd get the same responses.

I don't think leaving these DCs overnight is the main thing...I would be more concerned about them actually going to bed, and then getting themselves to school the next morning.

I'm presuming the OP has fitted her house with smoke alarms,and doesn't stay up all night incase there is a fire. so the "what if there was a fire" question is a bit weak.

I seem to be completely different to lots of people on here...but i think that if you feel your kids are MATURE enough to be left at that age that is up to you. We (my brother and me) were at that age... I was taking the coach from Leeds to Aberdeen on my own at 9 with changes along the way, flying transatlantic with stopovers at 12 on my own...I was up for it, my mum knew that and I never suffered as a result. I grew up thinking this was normal so I just don't understand this attitude that just because someone is a certain age they can't be left...it is surely down to the child and whether they are mature enough to cope. just my opinion and i realise it is completely at odds with lots of others.

I think the school acted totally appropriately

We don't know what the youngster told the school, maybe one or both were upset at the thought and let school know?

We also don't know if things have been flagged before which made the school act quicker, things like regular days off or lateness could set things in motion much quicker

I wouldn't leave 12/13 home alone. The youngest mine have done overnight is 16 and that was my very sensible child, I don't think I'll ever leave my son alone, no common sense, partys all around and general wreckage would occur

Disagree that the fire issue is not important. When there is a fire a 13 year old might not be capable of making sensible decisions to get themselves out of the fire safely. There is also an issue about a 13 year old understanding how to prevent a fire from happening in the first place.

It doesn't really matter if the OP thinks her children could manage not to cause a fire and could rescue themselves effectively if one happened or that she felt they would be OK to be left or should be allowed to choose for themselves.

It matters if SS agrees with the OP, it is reasonably likely that they might not. In fact in this situation they thought it was a risky situation and called the police who suggested the neighbour watch the children. It is clear from this that the police felt the children should not be left alone as they urged the neighbour to take them in.

If the neighbour had said no they might have taken the children down to the station and called the OP to come pick them up. As the neighbour agreed there was no further action needed from SS or the police as the risk was prevented. The judgement that was made by SS and the police however was that the OP was wrong and the children were not OK on their own.

If they had agreed the children were fine they would not have urged the neighbour to take them in. They could not have ordered the neighbour to take them in because the neighbour doesn't have parental responsibility for the children, instead the neighbour checked with the OP, who has parental responsibility, about what the police were suggesting and there was no need to do anything further.

If I were you OP I would not risk doing this again as it seems to me that SS and the police would not agree with you that your children were safe and you could put yourself at risk of prosecution or investigation by SS.

I left mine overnight when ds was 16 and dd was 12.I did it because my now dh's daughter lived with her grandma and needed help.I went but I shouldnt have done.It was over 20 years ago and they had a great time.Amongst other things they tried to get neighbour's Shetland pony to walk up our stairs but when it crapped in the hall they took it back to the field!!When I got back they had cleaned up and I accused them of leaving dirty boots around.I only found truth 15 years later!!You cannot trust anyone under 21 home alone in your house-anything might happen.

willowstar - the children can be left at the parent's discretion but SS judgement about whether the children are safe will override the parents if they are called. That's what SS are for. Parents almost never think they are being abusive or neglectful.

yanbu
The sane thing for the school should have been to contact you before and asked you some questions,but they probably got a policy to follow.
Anyway,i don`t judge you at all for leaving your kids for the night,you know them well.Me and my older brother stayed alone overnight at that age few times(with my 4year old brother,uhhh shock horror!),whilst my dad was ill in hospital and mum worked night shifts.
There are some paranoid ,overprotective,over policing people here.

I repeat: it doesn;t matter where the OP went. Because whatever she was doing, there will be posters wailing about how eeeevil and selfish and wrong it was (even if it was a matter of accepting the Nobel Peace Prize or having to go and talk a suicide down off a high bridge).
But I would like to know how the school found out, as well.

SGB - I think it does matter where she went for two reasons. Firstly the immediacy and severity of the situation she was responding to speaks as to her judgement in leaving them. Secondly it matters because it obviously does matter to her - if she was 100% about her judgement and reasoning she would just say wouldn't she - but she's repeatedly evaded the question. I don't care if she was swinging from the light fittings at an orgy or attending her best friend's son's barmitzvah -but keeping it to herself makes me suspicious!

school did the right thing - they shouldn't contact a parent before ss in issues that involve child safety where the parent's abilities are in doubt

ss then have a duty to investigate an if they and the police find fault to follow it up

if they don't it's a closed book

it is hard to imagine any event where a good parent would turn down the offer of a sleepover in favour of allowing 2 pubescent children to stay in a house unaccompanied by a responsible adult

Also, if it was all OK to leave them, why would you need a neighbour on "firewatch"??!!

I am a bit out of step with the majority here but i think YANBU. Agree with the points made by LaDiDaDi and B1984 - the school should have contacted you first. And I don't think the children are particularly at risk for being left alone. They can make a phone call or go to a neighbour if they need to. And they can leave the house if the smoke alarm goes off, just as easily as an adult can.

I dont see that it matters where she went. The OP had a choice to leave the children with a neighbour who had made the offer to take them in. She decided they could manage on their own and politely declined the neighbour's offer (although later it was taken up once the police became involved).

So the judgment is not about how important it was to go wherever she went, the judgment is whether she should have insisted on taking up the offer from the neighbour in the first place.

renerusso, ladidadi and b1984 are categorically wrong I'm afraid.

The school are only able to make judgements about issues which are happening in the school. They do have a duty of care to both withold passing judgement on parents suspected of abuse/neglect and to refer the matter to the appropriate agency for them to pass judgement on the situation.

If they had called the OP they would have had to make a judgement about whether the situation was neglect or not. Something it is impossible for them to do and something which is not allowed.

The children might be physically or mentally able to do anything an adult could in a fire. That doesn't mean they would have the judgement to do that though. Especially if there are two of them, would they know to leave the other and come out themselves? Would they know how to get out properly? Would they be able to make sensible decisions outside what they had been taught as 'procedure' for a fire?

An adult might not be able to do any of these things either but they are responsible for themselves where a child is not supposed to be responsible for themselves, they are supposed to be under the care of a responsible adult.