to thinks if a school has issue with my parenting skills, that they contact me first?

[mixformax]

I recently made the (long-mulled-over) decision to leave DD (13) and DS (12) alone at home overnight with close supervision by friend and neighbours. Both children are sensible, trustworthy and used to being left for a few hours at a time.

One of DS's teachers learned of this and, without making ANY attempt to contact me, or any of the other emergency contact numbers (4 in total) called in social services which resulted in a plain clothes DC turning up on doorstep and questioning DD.

Also DS and DD attend different schools - DS's school had the cheek to email the other school and alert them of the "problem". Thankfully this school seems to be a bit more in touch with the pupils and actually listened to DD when she told them that she was perfectly happy with the arrangements.

But WHY couldn't DS's school even attempt to listen to him properly before jumping to (very wrong) conclusions of neglect?

Wow I am pretty laid back parenting - but 12/13 alone together - nope no way and YABU to expect the school to turn a blind eye once they found out!

Like LadyGlencora, I also want to know how the school found out. Were your DCs discussing it at school? I think YABU and the school was NBU.

WHy did you leave them?

Unless They've Got Special Needs. Will come in handy, I feel.

But I see now that it could have myriad further applications, thanks

i agree with franca, leaving a sensible 13 and 12 year old overnight in their own home does not constitute putting them at risk.

it is of course entirely dependent on the individual children. also that they feel comfortable with that and not frightened.

think the school have been heavy handed, that is as maybe, what I think is appalling is the slating the OP is getting.

paranoid parenting anyone?

YANBU.

I think it's a judgement call you and only you could have made based upon your knowledge of your own kids and their level of responsibility. I know there are some parents who won't allow their kids to be alone even for a minute until they are 18 or won't let them walk to the corner shop until pensionable age but that's just an individual parenting style and it isn't a law. There seems to be no law about how old a child has to be to be left alone and it's not as if you left them completely unsupervised and went to Ibiza for a week.

Of course some posters will think that you are being totally unreasonable to even consider doing this but that is not the question you asked. I think perhaps the teacher/school may have acted in a way that they feel was right but should have attempted to contact you.

How did they learn that your children would be alone? If I were a teacher and I discovered this and thought action needed to be taken I would at least attempt to contact the parent to verify what I had been told.

Perhaps the teacher in question is a bit worked up over recent child protection cases and really did think this was some kind of risk or abusive situation. IMO they were wrong.

"most of the people posting on MN have teeny weeny children and so the angst about what they would do may be a little bit hypothetical."

That is very true. I think back to when mine were small and I would have found it hard to countenance doing something like that - ever!. A friend of ours left her 8 and 10yr old for 30 mins when they were in bed to go and pick up her DH. I was so shocked. Wouldn't bother me at all now.

YABU for being annoyed with the school, who were doing their job. Ditto SS. As far as they knew you eff-off to eye-beef-ah every weekend and your dcs are left alone with nought but a tin of cat food and not even 50p for the meter.
YANBU for leaving your dcs though - you know your dcs and you made suitable arrangements. I'd hazard a guess that you kind of knew that they might get cold feet but that doesn't matter because you knew that your neighbour would be there (as did your dcs) and she'd already offered a sleepover.
My dc is like OrmIrian's though and quite simply wouldn't go to bed

School did not act unreasonably.

Teachers are not qualified to make the judgement as to whether this constitutes neglect or not, social workers are- hence the referral in accordance with the school's child protection policy.

The policy to not contact parents is there for a reason. If a student tells the teacher they are being physically or sexually abused, and the teacher rings home and says "Guess what child x said today?", they are not only putting that child at serious risk of further abuse, but jeopardising any future prosecution of the offender. The teacher must treat what they have heard as evidence, even if it comes to nothing. They are not allowed to discuss CP concerns with colleagues, only the designated CP officer, for much the same reasons. Neglect is also a CP issue, so is subject to the same protocol.

In your case, you feel it does not constitute neglect, and Social Services will probably agree with you. However, IME a child saying they have been left alone overnight can be the first indication of other greater issues of neglect, often involving parental drug use. I am not saying this is the case with you, but how are teachers expected to tell the difference between the two cases? Surely that is the job of Social Services?

The school follow procedure not just because they have to, but because they are professional and know which judgements they can make and which they cannot.

BTW, I'm making no judgement at all about you leaving your DCs overnight- not my job to

Nor am I insinuating that you are a drug addict (just read post back), just that some parents are.

I wouldn't personally leave my 12yo alone all night. In the day yes fine, not overnight.

But having said that, the fire thing seems a little odd: what is there to say that I would wake up sooner than her if there was a fire? In fact, I am a heavier sleeper, so she'd be more likely to wake than me- and would possibly be more at risk if I was there and she had to try and wake me. And no, I don't stay awake on fire guard every night.

I still feel 12 is a bit young, and that the school may well have a point in asking SS to investigate in case there was a genuine case of neglect lurking; as tethersend says, experience shows this is often the case.

Why won't you tell us why you left your children alone overnight? Are you embarressed?

PrincessToadstool Fri 25-Sep-09 16:04:59 Add a message | Report post | Contact poster

"neighbour on 'firewatch'

wtf does that mean? does this neighbour not sleep?"

don't parents sleep when they are at home with their children? who's to say that the adult would wake sooner than a child?

YABU in thinking the school should have contacted you prior to calling SS. It was your decision/choice/judgement to leave your children overnight. I won't judge you on that - you know your children better than anyone. However, the school obviously got to hear about it and made the decision that, in the best interests of your children, they should contact SS.

By cory on Fri 25-Sep-09 16:11:57

"don't parents sleep when they are at home with their children? who's to say that the adult would wake sooner than a child? "

Whatever my views on whether or not children should be left alone overnight, I would think that it's fairly common sense to think that an adult sleeping in the same house as the children would have one heck of a greater chance of being aware that there's a fire, or intruder, or whatever, than someone living in a different house across the street.

Yes, Rindercella, but not a greater chance than a 13yo sleeping in the same house, surely?

my point was, I can't imagine that a 13yo would be less likely to notice a fire than an adult in the same house

and yes, I have a near13yo

I am sure she would spot any trouble far sooner than I would

i think that goea with the raining hammers comment - in a fire the instruction is 'get out stay out call us out'

and basically you're all buggered if you're asleep and have no fire alarm.

Unless They Go Snorkelling Nightly

go it right away FitofBun,

isn't 12yo old enough to travel alone on an aircraft??