to thinks if a school has issue with my parenting skills, that they contact me first?

[mixformax]

I recently made the (long-mulled-over) decision to leave DD (13) and DS (12) alone at home overnight with close supervision by friend and neighbours. Both children are sensible, trustworthy and used to being left for a few hours at a time.

One of DS's teachers learned of this and, without making ANY attempt to contact me, or any of the other emergency contact numbers (4 in total) called in social services which resulted in a plain clothes DC turning up on doorstep and questioning DD.

Also DS and DD attend different schools - DS's school had the cheek to email the other school and alert them of the "problem". Thankfully this school seems to be a bit more in touch with the pupils and actually listened to DD when she told them that she was perfectly happy with the arrangements.

But WHY couldn't DS's school even attempt to listen to him properly before jumping to (very wrong) conclusions of neglect?

Actually, you can ring the police as an emergency in those circumstances, if the parents abscond with a child and you are so concerned. I have done this before, and then regretted not having paid more attention to the appearance of the parents as I tried to give the police operator a description of the family.

My school reported a potentially neglectful and abusive situation once to SS, and informed the parent.
The children came home to an empty and locked rented house as the parent had absconded.
We were just glad that she'd not taken them with her.

I understand your point LaDiDaDi, but I have to say, even if the school found out at lunchtime, the potential risk of placing the child in harm is till present, hence the school's action; although it was my understanding that the school found out after the fact?

A very confusing thread...

yeah sorry op - whether i feel it was right for you to do this or not - is not the point.

the school did the right thing imo

Tis very confusing!

I think that we have differing expectations/experiences of ss. I would have expected (if the children were in school at the time) ss to say, "We'll send the Emergency Duty SW out before these children go home" rather than the children being allowed to go home first.

till present? still present.

What a great teacher

Tethersend is correct. If the school heard about this & were concerned then the correct response would be for them to contact SS.

As a form tutor, if I was told something that made me uncomfortable, I would report it to the Safeguarding Officer who would make a judgment call re: ringing SS. He'd be entirely correct in doing this & letting them decide what liaison they were going to have with the parent(s).

To be honest, I'm startled that SS even took it seriously! They tend to have far more pressing problems than 2 young teens left alone overnight as a one-off, which makes me a bit about the OP.

As for the OP's decision, well, I had a regular arrangement until quite recently, whereby my neighbour (terraced houses, party wall) would leave her 13 & 9 year old dss - I'd go round after tea, at 9ish to ensure they were in PJs & at 11 to check the house was quiet.

In the event of any problem at all they knew to bang on my door. Mum would be back before they got up. (She was a divorcee with a new bf - trying to build a new r/ship slowly as her boys had been very hurt by her knobstick xh's behaviour.)

So I think the OP was not necessarily BU to leave the kids with a neighbour keeping an ear out.

chegirl I have quoted this from you saying this could be abuse

Tiredness
Over alertness
Poor personal hygiene
Overly concerned with personal hygiene
Overly sexualised behaviour i.e. taking clothes off inappropriately
Refusual to remove clothes i.e. keeping coat on indoors
Being withdrawn
Over friendliness
Disruptive in class
Unwilling to participate in class

this also could be signs of aspergers or ADHD or any SEN and the parents are awaiting a dx for said child.

I wouldnt leave my 12/13/14 year old overnight as they cant be trusted as they have issues as in the above. I wouldnt leave my 20 year old either as he would party. Only the OP knows her kids and the reason behind leaving them. As for the school calling the SS and the police turning up very strange for a first time as usually they ask for the home number and then call if it is warranted and usually the SS are a bit busy for this. The SS are understaffed as it is. So this seems well not something they'd do really.

I think its perfectly fine to leave a 12 and 13 year old alone for the night.

I also think the school did their duty- they sound very conscientious. Schools understand that theyre going to cause hassle with parents in situations like this but its good that they arenT afraid to take action or follow a protocol.

I agree with NSPCC guidance that no child under 16 years should be left alone overnight.

living.aol.co.uk/parenting/child-safety-is-it-ever-ok/article/20070517061909990006

I also think there is something wrong with the original posting.

There is a lot of information that we don't know - i.e. how far away from the kids was the original poster?

We don't know why the neighbour stepped in and allowed the kids to sleep over.

Curiosity is correct - it is not up to the school to inform the parents - they have to follow their protocol. They were reacting to info that they received.

We don't know if the OP was there when SS turned up to question DD, or not.

If say this arrangement had continued, and something had happened to the children if they had been left alone overnight again - and the school had not done anything - then what then?

Snapple - OP and subsequent posts appears to me to be saying that school found out on the day of the night in question, and then police showed up at the house at tea time (OP already left the house as she says neighbour was charged with providing the tea). The police then requested that the children sleep at the neighbour's house.

I think there is probably a reason why the police went and not ss and I'm guessing this could be because police could take them immediately to a place of safety if necessary but ss would have to get court order to do this?

It seems most likely to me that the school either did not find out about this until late in the day or spent time deciding what to do about it.

The only way for OP to find out why she was not contacted until the police got in touch is to ask the school.

Interesting link, Snapple.

It seems now cihld uner 13 should be left alone at all.

But what about 11 year olds in high school, walking home alone? There is no after school care for children of this age, so what are working parents supposed to do? Get a child minder to collect form high school?

no child.

I disagree that a child under 13 should never be left home alone even for a short period of time. How on earth are you supposed to teach them a sense of responsibility?

oh my goodness the list provided by chergirl of abuse, some of them sounds like perfectly normalbehaviour in children, like tiredness and overalertness, overfriendliness and poor personal hygeine, goodness sakes this has gone ott imo. Kids might have had bad nights or are not good sleepers like my dd (2.6years), some kids do not like washing themselves and can be quite friendly depending on personality. I persume that my dd will be quite friendly as my dh and myself are quite friendly people. What utter rubbish IMO, some of them yes like being withdrawn and overlysexual behaviour.

I would leave a 13 on their own for a few hours, gosh my neices then 12-13 used to go shopping together, but it all depends on maturity.

yes well pigletmania, the ss are concerned with these children displaying this behavior(which of some seems normal) yet a child with missing finger nails, visable bruises they miss!!!!!

what a crock of shit

LynetteScavo, there is a big difference between a 12yo child walking home from school on their own or even being on their own in the house for an hour or two, and a 12yo child being left alone for (say) 12 hours overnight.

Social Services wouldn't be concerned about the former (unless there are special needs etc involved) but they would by the latter.

Exactly, the Sunshines, some of the behaviours listed are normal and do not necessarily indicate abuse. How could the ss miss the obvious abuse of Baby Peter is astonishing. My dd is tired most of the time and needs a nap during the day because she is a poor sleeper, and overractiveness abuse, no, my goodness who dreamed up this list. Yes i would say to overly sexual behaviour, being withdrawn etc

according to this list most of the children in Britain are abused.

dod we ever find out why the op left her kids overnight?

snorb I totally agree, leaving a child overnight is whole different ball game than leaving them for a few hours.

spicemonster the advice from the link was that most children under the age of 13 should not be left at home alone, as even a short period of time on their own can be distressing; plus most would not be able to cope in an emergency. They then go on and provide a check list to consider when considering to leave your child at home. They also mention your childs maturity as well their actual age.

Their advice is clear that no child under the age of 16 should ever be left alone overnight.

SSD no but it would be interesting if the OP clarified this.

THANKS Besom I think that sounds sensible - I wonder if the OP returned once the plain clothes officers turned up? Also as it was a long considered decision to leave the kids alone, I wonder if she does regret not getting proper child care in place, it would have saved all this hassle and would have been better for her kids. I imagine that it can't have been great for them to have police at the door - they must have been wondering - do they answer etc etc.

My friend leaves her kids aged 9-11 years alone in the day for a couple of hours occasionally (not the younger son aged 2), they are fine, very mature and sensible, when my friend is late out of bed say by half an hour, they get the younger son up who is 2, get him breakfast, take him to the loo and play with him. They can even make simple food themselves, they have been left alone while my friend has come to my house for a couple of hours as they do not want to come. But yes overnight is a different thing altogether. T

I should add that I meant to say Besom's summary was sensible, not the OP's actions.

Actually the OP can ask the school why they took their actions. I think they will respond that the action was in line with their child protection policy.

I don't really think she can consider the school's actions to be unreasonable - as they were only reacting to information they received - as a consequence of her actions and obviously passed on the info to the appropriate authorities.

I find the NSPCC's advice very curious.

If under 16's shouldn't be left overnight ever how on earth are they prepared for real life? You can marry at 16, join the army at 17 and are positively encouraged to live alone if at University once 18.

That is at the very least a sharp learning curve. Children need to gradually learn to look after themselves not be thrown in at the deep end.

I can see why the NSPCC offer their advice, I think it comes down to child care - why go out for the night and leave a 12 and 13 yr old alone for a night without child care in place?

Before I posted the link I read an estimate that over 1000 children in the UK die each year left home alone, about 90 percent of them from fires.

I agree that children need to learn to look after themselves - but each case needs to analysed for risk factors.