Another MIL story...

[AJ123]

I don't know what to do...I am at my wit's end!! My 1st child dd is not even 7 weeks old yet and I have spent most of her little life arguing with dh over in laws. I've tried as much as I can to ignore the situation, and of course I've enjoyed her but it's coming to a point where neither of us can stand it anymore!

I have never had a good relationship with MIL. Not from want of trying on my part, and tbh i think she took an instant dislike to me (she also continually mentioned his ex not very tactful!)- we're far too different people but grated along because we both loved her ds/my dh. Anyway, after a while this culminated in her being drunk in her local and shouting in a pub at my much younger brother how she was going to hit him because 'yuk' he was related to me, her ds could do so much better etc etc.

This caused huge ructions, but eventually, I accepted that I had to partly forgive her and try and get on with things. I was still not fully accepted and relations were strained but we muddled along.

6 months later, I found out I was pregnant. My DH was happy but immediately demanded that his mother would be allowed to see the baby as much as mine, divided child care etc etc. Funnily enough my MIL was not my first thought!

We told his mother sooner than I'd have liked (after I found out that one of his mother's friends had found out via my pharmacist(!!!!!) and had told her children (one of whom was dh's ex) and they were taking it upon themselves to announce it to people ). She was overexcited.

Apparently all she'd ever wanted to be was a grandma. She was in my face 'dn't cut me out, don't cut me out' gave me presents etc. It was so wrong. I could understand that she was happy, but to force a relationship with me only to get to her GC I feel was wrong. I would have respected her more if she stuck to her guns, I would never have stopped her seeing her GC. Anyway, the undercurrent of dislike was still there. I had previously suffered from bulimia, and at a family dinner to celebrate our news, she read out a text from a friend to everyone saying 'oh congrats on becoming a gran. At least she'll have a reason to be sick now'... I couldn't believe my ears!

My pregnancy continued. She continued to make it about herself. She wanted to put pics of my Scan on her facebook. She wanted to be in at the birth, (my FIL offered to film it!). She bought us a fetal heart monitor but insisted that she listen to the baby first (before even us!) so the gift was evidently for herself not us. She wanted to buy a baby box, which was sweet, and she asked me to choose. So I did. She bought a different one, that she liked! Her house was filled with her own pram, her own crib etc...

Fast forward to the wonderful day my DD was born. They came to hospital. My MIL just got my FIL to take pics of her posing with DD. None of DD with her DS, none of DD on her own, none of DD with FIL (believe me I was not in any state to want to be photographed anyway!!) She then announced the birth of my daughter on Facebook before we got to tell our friends, and put up all of her pics of herself with DD on the same site.

The photoshoots have continued everytime she sees her.ONly herself with DD and all get put on Facebook. Now call me old-fashioned but I thought Grandparent took photos and put them up in their house, not all over a social networking site where you don't really have control over who is looking at these pics...(she was asked by DH not to after even more pics were taken, but she ignored him)

She wouldn't come around at weekends, because she caravans every fri sat sun mon, so I was asked to endure afternoons with her on my own immediately after DD was born. It was torture. And it was just one battle after another...why wasn't she allowed to have her on her own, why couldn't she take DD out for a walk etc. She is just waiting to have me out of the way!

Finally, we took our DD over to my ILs, when she was 3 weeks old. It was just a quick drop in for cuddles then home to feed her. (not comfortable about BFing at ILs.) MIL asked if she could walk out with DD (not in pram but in her arms) and take her over to the other side of her village to 'show off' to her friends. I said I'd rather she didn't (maybe overprotective but that's my right surely). She sulked, she may as well have stamped her foot. Ten minutes later, my head was turned in conversation with BIL and she ran out of the house with DD anyway!! She hasn't been around since then to see her. I put my foot down and said it was weekends only, when my DH is home, and I don't feel so vulnerable. It has been her choice to sulk at this, and doesn't want to come around when I'm here. (In fact she text my DH and said she wasn't coming round ever again, she knows I don't like her, which to me is just a ruse to get my DH to ship my DD over to her without me - She's too little!!! But my DH agrees with his MIL that I should be out of the way so his Mother can see GD. Who else lets their LOs out of there site at this age? Am I wrong?)

I truly feel that my DD is a trophy to her. There is no kissing of baby or real genuine affection. And she isn't happy just holding her and interacting with her. It has to be about parading her.

It has got to the point where the thought of her holding DD makes me cringe. I truly don't think she's nice woman. She doesn't understand that she can't emulate my closeness with my mother just to have equal access to DD. It's just the way it is! (Before DD was born she said she didn't like girls, and anyway she just KNEW it was a boy and she has already mentioned since we had her that shes sure we'll have a boy...enjoy the GD you have!)

What do I do. This is tearing our relationship apart. On top of everything else I can't trust my DH to support me. I think her walking out of the house with my 3 week old daughter would be enough for anyone, despite everything else? At least it's going to take me a while to trust her with my baby, and I'm not sure that's surprising. My closeness to my mother isn't helping the situation as DH sees this and resents that his mother can't have the same. I wouldn't let someone I think is essentially nasty, manipulative etc etc have sole charge of the thing that is most precious to me in all the world....even if she is my MIL.

So....after this long post, am I being unreasonable?!

I also think the MIL would regard the t-shirt as a victory.

But I´m only thinking it might not be worth arguing with husband about.

And also, who is MIL going to "crow" to about it?

Maybe she knows she is special (winds finger at head)... I think if she wants to call herself special nanna loony or what ever then let her, but she can not expect adults to call her that.

My mum is nanna and DHs mum is grandma, my two are my mums only grandchildren as yet, but to MIL they are 9th and 10th and all the others call her Grandma so it just panned out like that.

I agree with the facebook thing and I ask people not to put up pictures of my children, it is a personal thing, I think you need to tell your H that the ground rules are XYZ while your baby is so small, but can be reviewed as she gets older and you get more confident of her being with other people.

The first few weeks are so special, for the whole family, I am so sorry your MIL is spoiling it for everyone.

Keep it civil, and remember you get more flys with honey the with vinegar

AJ, I'm really glad the visit was ok.

You posted, 'Nothing has changed. MIL hasn't changed, DH hasn't changed. She's merely been to see DD'.

I disagree.

You have changed.

It is a law of physics, that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction in order to maintain the status quo. I can't remember off the top of my head, but there is a management theorist who says that resistance to change works in exactly the same way. The only person who wants this disfunctional power dynamic to change is you: - everyone else wants it to stay the same; your DH & FIL want to bury their heads in the sand and hope this all will stop, and there is no way your MIL is going to give up the queen bee spot, especially with all the attention she receives as a result of her histrionics.

Once she realises she's getting nowhere with you, your MIL will most probably up the anti. She will try to court more public sympathy. Try to tell yourself you don't care what other people think - really, their opinions don't matter.

So you will have an uphill battle ahead of you, but understanding where the resistance is coming from helps to make it less personal for you.

Well done for not discussing the visit with DH. I still maintain that by endlessly discussing her and having rows about her demands & behaviour, you are elevating her importance in yours, your DH's & her mind. It is the most difficult thing to do, (and the easiest to type ), but try not to discuss her with DH. Try practicing a few lines you can trot out - e.g. 'Let's just try to get through one day without discussing your Mum', 'I've made my feelings clear, there's no point in discussing this any further' etc.

Stay strong. Rant on here and with your own family, not with DH.

Lucky - of course I wasn't suggesting AJ made it up - I thought the MIL had had it specially printed! I find it very odd that such things are printed on T shirts. Don't want to hi jack the thread but I was trying to buy PJs for my 8 year old GD the other day and couldn't believe some of the things on the tops - "too many parties, too little sleep" "partied out" "girly night in - nails, DVD makeup" etc etc - at aged 8!!

sounds like all moving in a better direction. I had a hard time with dh right after birth (had big issues about preceding months also) and thought I'd never even like him again, but, had'nt accounted for how volatile post birth emotions are - things that seemed huge seem less of a big deal now. He is'nt perfect, my MIL is rather a narcissistic cow (anymore 't' shirts going?) but, I still love dh and I don't have to have to much to do with MIL so hopefully, things are ok. Most important thing is secuity for your dd and your long term happiness. Dont write the bloke off just yet.

Nana Nina, give up. No one is going to listen to your clear, logical thoughts.The thread has clearly turned into a generalised MIL venting board.This woman sounds absolutely awful, but you know what?, Build a bridge, get over it. How did such a horrible person raise your husband to a standard good enough for you to be interested in him in the first place? Poor bloke, he's probably the same as 99% of males will do anything for a quiet life. Not saying this is right, it would be very frustrating but it is understandable. It's just a male thing.

Thanks Coralanne - you have wise words and NOT just because you have paid me a compliment! I was drawn to these MIL threads in the first place because I honestly thought that I could shed a little light or maybe a different perspective on this often fraught relationship between 2 women and 1 man and often children in the middle. However I think you're right, I think these MIL complaints just attract posters who are also having difficult r/ships with MILs and they just come on and back up the OP to the hilt and also "fuel up" the OP in some cases. I'm not saying the OP does not need reassurance sometimes and this is how MN is useful but as I have pointed out before there are 2 sides to every story and of course we only hear one side. Any attempts to show a different perspective or inject a little balance into the situation is not really appreciated and has often been met with rudeness and accusations that I am "behaving like a typical toxic MIL" etc etc.

Anyway it looks like the OP might have lost interest in the thread so maybe it's on its way out. And I might well take your advice!

ok.

Not every poster (or even most) has made sweeping generalisations on this thread. Coralanne & NanaNina - you are doing many posters a disservice - there is a lot of good advice, as well as empathy on here.

Absolutely. On every type of thread, posters contribute their own experiences. Are they not allowed to if it's a MIL thread then?

OF course posters will relate their own experiences. I think my point is there seems to be an assumption that there is only one side of the story and that the dil is justified in her complaint/frustration/anger whatever. At the risk of repeating myself I think the mil sites seem to be used by dils who also have difficult r/ships with their mils and like to join in slagging off the mil who is currently being complained about.

I know this isn't always the case and I think if posters complain of something trivial about their mil, there are lots of women coming on to tell them that they are being unreasonable.

Now I haven't noticed the same thing happening with posters who complain about a difficult mother, father, sister, friend etc. There seems to be much more balance there, and I wonder if this is because people are just being more objective about these kind of difficult r/ships.

When I have tried to see things from a different perspective (not necessaily "siding" with the mil in question but maybe trying to throw a little light on the reason for her behaviour, I have been accused of "defending mils at all costs" Mind on the other hand some posters say they find my posts interesting and that it's good to have a balance.

Also and I have mentioned this again and again and never got a response, so will try again. I find it curious that when I post as a mil and don't always agree with the dil and the dil supporters, I am accused of "behaving like a typical toxic mil" "morphing into an awful mil" etc etc - now I haven't noticed other women being accused of "behaving like a typical toxic mother, daughter, sister, aunt, granny etc etc." SO I think this demonstrates that there is sgtereotyping of mils in the way that there isn't with other difficult r/ships.

I think it was on this thread that I tried to suggest to the OP that she try and find some middle ground with her mil (who does by the way sound very ego centric)for the sake of the child, so that she did not grow up in the midst of this tension and conflict. I made it very clear that I wasn't supporting the mil's behaviour etc etc but the OP came back in a very defensive tone and it seems to me that dils who complain about mils onlu want their views totally endorsed.

I have noticed that SILs often come in for quite a bit of stick too, but that I suspect is usually because they are the daughters of the mil and have a close r/ship with their mother, who by definition is a MIL!

How sad that there has to be such conflict in women's relationships when on the whole we are far more sensitive and well balanced than men ...............whew that's a whole other story.

My experience is that more son ILs get on with their MILs than DILs get on with theirs.

I´m nothing like my MIL,and I think that that is part of the "problem".

We don´t not get on, but there´s just no relationship, really.

Is it because (sorry for the generalisation) men often marry women who are very unlike their own mothers?

Or do some MILs expect a DIL to be as close to themas their own mother?

NanaNina I hadn't until now, taken affront to any of your look-at-it-from-the-MILs-point-of-view posts....but with your last one you shot yourself quite spectacularly in the foot.

Many of those of us who have posted on this thread have been through this shite with toxic (which tbh, IMO, is a mild way of putting it for some of us) MILs and come out the other side with ou dignity intact, our heads held high, and hopefully the support of MILs PFB as well. So, please refrain from patronising us and lumping us all under the "MIL bashing" umbrella. Bash them? I'd hammer mine till she squealed if I ever had to set eyes on her again. That's how badly she hurt me and my family and I make no apologies for my feelings towards her now, so just because you happen to be a MIL, don't even try and pretend to know what we go through at the hands of these bitches.

And as for the snidey comment that the OP seems to have left the thread (usually said as a veiled hint that they are a troll) you must have missed the bit where she has a small child and has just gone back to work so presumably has better things to do with her time than check MN every hour.

NanaNina, I'm not happy with your last post either. I didn't have any problem with the other ones, you simply have another viewpoint.

I do NOT have a problem with my MIL, I have a toxic Mum. Do not underestimate the damage prolonged psychological abuse can have. As a survivor, like Bucharest and some of the other posters, we can see the patterns more clearly I think because we've been there.

AJ needs support at a very vulnerable time; and she has my best wishes.

Is it because (sorry for the generalisation) men often marry women who are very unlike their own mothers?
*

I'd disagree - men tend to marry women very much like their mothers and it is this similarity in characters that tend to create the friction.

I am the complete opposite of my mil. She is very controlling and I'm more like a hippy type in comparison.

She is nosey and neurotic, I'm not interested in other peoples lives, on the whole, and don't care too much about what others think of me.

She's snide and I'm in your face.

She is a pessimist trying to mask it with a smiley face. I'm an optimist but I try not to be too smiley.

I have to go get my girl or my DH will throw something at me or I'd sit and type out more differences between us DH is not fond of him mom and neither am I!!!!! But there you go!

Well i guess it depends on whether the man has a positive view of his mother then. Tis a generalisation but most ladies i know are very similar to their MIL's. I never knew my MIL as she dies before i met DH. I always wish i did get to know her as she sounds amazing and we would have had many interests in common, including a love for DH.

PS totally sorry for thread hijacking - AJ so glad the day went much better than planned and that you managed to rise above the face pulling theatrics. Tis a different generation at times but you sound like you are doing very well coping with a newborn baby and difficulties with DH and MIL.

Bucharest - sorry that you took exception to my post. I DO believe that there are some awful MILs about and just because I am a mil does NOT mean that I defend anyone else who happens to be one. On the contrary from what I read on some of these posts, there are some really dreadful older women about who are mils and causing trouble for their sons,and dils, and maybe daughters and sils for all I know but it does seem that the majority of the problem is with the mil and the dil. You clearly have had a terrible experience and though I don't particularly like your mode of expression about your mil, I am assuming you have very good reason to feel as angry as you do.

I really am not trying to patronise you nor under estimate the awful experiences that you have had and having re read my post I still can't see how you arrive at that conclusion. How can I possibly know how someone feels when they have had such awful experiences. I would never try to pretend that I can understand someone else's experiences.

As for what you perceived as a "snidey comment" that AJ has left the thread, I think you have misinterpreted my comment. It was simply meant as a statement of fact and I suppose I was maybe inferring that the thread was drawing to a close or that AJ no longer felt the need to post. And I may be an older woman but please be assured I well remember how it felt to care for small children (i had 3 under 5s at one point) so please don't think we older women forget what it's like for you young mothers.

FWIW I felt very sorry for AJ and thought her mil was a very ego centric woman who seemed to be having some sort of identity crisis and was behaving very badly. I was concerned that everyone was homing in on the adults and I was concerned about the child at the centre of this tension and conflict.

Stripey cat - I would never ever under estimate the damage that prolonged phsychological abuse can do. I have spent 30 years as a social worker in child protection and fostering and know only too well how childhood abuse affects people throughout thelifespan.

I don´t know any DILs who are like their MILs.

In my case, my husband deliberately chose someone as different to his mum as possible!

But the other way around-I find most sonsIL get on with their MILs!

Is it the mums of sons who find the "letting go" harder?

That's interesting Diddl. I know loads of DILd who get on with their MILS. My mum is one (I am not but she walked out on DH and his dad when DH was about 4 so whole diff set of circs) and she gets on really well with my brothers' GFs. I think it can depend on the relationship someone has had with their MIL and/or whether they have sisters/daughters

I don't think it's the moms of sons who find the "letting go" harder necessarily, but for the mothers of daughters, I think it is often easier for them to stay closer to their daughter and the GC than the mothers of sons. Not always I know. I was certainly much closer to my mum than my mil though I was always on good terms with my mil. I have read a lot of stuff on here about mils telling dils (or inferring) that they have "stolen" their son and I think some feeling of loss is obviously at the bottom of this seemingly ridiculous comment. There is also the notion that mothers of sons are maybe "losing" them to another woman. Maybe mothers of daughters don't feel that sense of loss in quite the same way, I'm not sure really.

There can be problems for mothers of daughters too of course. I have a close friend whose daughter is married to a very controlling man and he "rations" the time that his wife can spend with her parents, which causes my friend great distress.

Also I think that men are more likely to accept their MILs and either get along OK or maybe keep a distance, and there doesn't seem to be that same competitive thing that seems to go on between mils and dils. I know I am generalising but there it is. Two of my three sons are not wild about their mils but it doesn't seem to cause them any difficulties - it's just a
"oh I can take her or leave her" or "I don't get too involved with her"

All generalisations here I'm afraid but in the absence of any research on the issue that I suppose is all we can do.

Well,I´m closer to my mum than MIL.

I´ve known her many years longer & she brought me up.

She´s the first I would ask for advice or to babysit.

My ´parents used to visit every week, spend the day, stay long enough to see husband & go.

Offered this to ILs, but they only wanted a day with husband there.

Which put it to weekends, & husband told them
every third was enough.

Every visit we would get a drama about how the children had changed and MIL would
say "do you remember us"?

My son is an only one & we have their only grandchildren.

I can´t tell you how offended I was that myself & children weren´t good enough to see alone, and that they had the cheek to moan about lack of visits!

Yes diddl but your parents were spending the day with YOU their daughter and saying maybe a quick "hello" to your H. Your H's parents just want the same, to spend the day with you and the children but with their son too. Would your parents feel OK about spending the day with your H and the children and saying a "quick hello" to you?

I can well understand you being closer to your own mother - that must almost always be the case, certainly was for me. Maybe it wasnt'that you and the children were "not good enough to see alone" but your ILs actually want to spend some time with their son as well, or maybe they feel more comfortable when he is around. I don't think they should moan about lack of visits though, every 3rd weekend sounds like they are getting a good deal to me.

Oh I appreciate that they wanted to see their son on their own.

Obviously, they could have come later in the day than my parents, and stayed later so as to do that.

Forgot to mention that.

Well, tbh, yes, if it were reversed, my parents would have spent a day with husband and children and a quick hello to me rather than not see us at all.

And between my husband and parents, half an hour and they´ve run out of things to say!

Just found this thread, and I wonder if AJ is still about to give us an update.

Aj? Yoooohooooo!!!

It's been a year now, what are you up to?

How is it all going?

I have just read the 16 pages of this thread, and thought all the way through "my goodness, I could have written that myself".