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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to be seething and planning to complain to ds2's teacher tomorrow?

175 replies

Greensleeves · 17/09/2009 17:36

ds2 (aged 5 and just started Y1) has come home today with a library book - the children are taken to the library to choose a book once a week

he has come home with a huge hardbacked tome entitled "The Readers Digest Illustrated History of World War II"

I have flicked through it and it is full of photos of tanks, machine guns, people standing outside their bombed-out houses etc

I am FURIOUS

ds1 had this teacher last year and she is excellent, I think very highly of her and am VERY surprised to find that she has allowed this to happen

I really don't want to antagonise her (not only have I liked and respected her for more than a year, she's a bit scary) but I really feel I have to say something!

I have taken the book away from ds2 and told him that is isn't suitable for a 5yo - he is now crying in the living room

AIBU to be really fucked off?

OP posts:

TheApprentice · 18/09/2009 09:36

thank you for being nice to the teacher! Hopefully it might get removed from the library.

seeker · 18/09/2009 09:59

Not taken out of the library I hope, just put in the Year 6 section.

titchy · 18/09/2009 09:59

Yes you completely over-reacted - but you know that and handled it well once you realised.

As you're a governor perhaps use this as an opportunity to get school to revise their library system, so that KS1 can only get out certain coloured books, yrs 3 and 4 a couple of extra colours and yrs 5 and 6 have free choice. That's how our school does it and it works pretty well - ds is now delighted he can get out yellow and gold books!

However I am a bit at you taking your dcs on protests about Palestine whilst totally flipping about WW2. Apart from ther fact that I wholeheartedly disagree with young children going on such protests, becasue they obviously have no awareness of the issues so it's not their free choice, the things that go on in Palestine are on a similar par to WW2 - do you not want to protect them from these horrors as well? Assuming you do, how do you reconcile the fact that you take them on marches when they obvioulsy have so little understanding about why they're protesting, adn what they're protesting against? Not stirring, just interested

Original poster

Greensleeves · 18/09/2009 10:16

I have taken them on peaceful demonstrations - vigil-type things, with other familyfriends who also have their children with them

not marches as such - no distressing photographs or graphic descriptions

They know that there are injusticees in the world, that sometimes families are driven from their homes as a result of disputes over territory. They know that in some countries people do not have access to clean water and they know that that can cause disease etc, and they know that there is poverty and violence and that we are concerned about this and will do what we can to contribute to a better world

none of this involves overfacing them with terrifying images and graphic details of horrors they are too young to comrehend and which they can do nothing about.

the children know broadly what our politics and ethics are - that we are pacifists - they know that we boycott Nestle (ds1 knows a bit about the formula milk issue) and that we are members of Greenpeace etc as well. They know that there is poverty and injustice - I don't need to show them pictures of tiny children with distended bellies and flies on their faces to make them aware of injustice at an appropriate level.

they know as much as their father and I think they can handle and no more - that is our choice. We answer their questions but we tailor our responses to whichever child is asking the question

it would be impossible to go into huge detail about exactly how much and what type of information is appropriate here - but I would say that it is a fine line and one which I take very seriously

it is very crude to assume that because I object to my 5yo looking at piles of murdered bodies in an adult reference book I must want him to have no awareness of politics and current affairs at all.

OP posts:

MintyCane · 18/09/2009 10:47

wilkos you would be thrilled if your five year old chose a book full pictures of piles of dead people ?

YANBU or precious at all

and hey you got your real name back.

I have only come back to say hi and YANBU really didn't think i would but anyway... cheesy embarassed grin.

pigletmania · 18/09/2009 11:00

well done Greensleves for handeling the situation well Your kids certainly are well informed, i know at that age i was in my own little bubble of playing with my friends watching tv and exploring thats what my world revolved around. Though now as an adult i am interested in politics and current affairs, my lack of knowledge in childhood did not affect my interest in all that is going on in the world. I disagree that the book should be removed from the library, its ok for 9-11 year olds who would have more understanding so should be placed in that section.

I disagree with some of the comments that learning about the 2ww should only happen at 9+. I was 7-8 when we covered it and i really enjoyed it and was fascinated, we did not do the violent nature of it, jsut day to day life, rationing, evacuation, and some blitz stuff nothing too traumatic. We were then taken for a trip to the War Museum in London, i was hooked and fascinated and did not feel distressed. It is geared towards children anyway and was taught in a child friendly way.

Tambajam · 18/09/2009 11:23

He's 5. It doesn't sound like this book was appropriate for his age. I think there are some books about World War Two that would be but not this one.
I'm surprised to read some teachers don't feel they have the ability to monitor what library books children are taking out. It's not hard to whip round everyone in a group and see what they've got, ask people to hold them up on the carpet etc. If books like that are in the library I would take extra care to have a glance at everyone's choices. Ex-teacher here.

diddl · 18/09/2009 11:26

Having them colour coded does sound a good idea.

Smithagain · 18/09/2009 13:19

Glad to hear the teacher was sympathetic Greensleeves. Have been very surprised at some of the responses on here and was afraid that I was totally out of touch with what schools think is OK.

echofalls · 18/09/2009 13:26

He's upset because you are going off on one about the book

I have taken 5 year olds to the school library and we cannot make them choose a book, its all part of giving them independence and freedom of choice. What would normally happen is the same book would go backwards and forwards between friends, they like what their friends like. He probably was drawn by pictures of tanks or something, or perhaps just grabbed the book as he was running out of time.

I would just return the book next library day, it sounds like a very boring book for a 5 year old so he probably won't get that far looking at it anyway.

jennymac · 18/09/2009 13:34

I think you are being unreasonable to be so annoyed about it. Okay, it might not be the most appropriate book for a 5yr old but I can't see why you would be just so angry about it. He can get a new book next week and he probably didn't see anything that he hasn't caught a glimpse of on the evening news. You must have precious little in life to worry about if a small incident like this would lead you to become so overexcited!

Hulababy · 18/09/2009 14:09

Glad you were able to sort it out okay with the teacher and TA okay.

Original poster

Greensleeves · 18/09/2009 17:03

ds2's teacher seemed quite shocked that he had this book and agreed completely that it was inappropriate and that she should have noticed it.

which is reassuring, given some of the responses from teachers on this thread!

poor old ds2, the whole thing confused him horribly and I handled it spectacularly badly - but no harm done, I think, and we will be going out to find a different one tomorrow.

OP posts:

Original poster

Greensleeves · 18/09/2009 17:04

"You must have precious little in life to worry about if a small incident like this would lead you to become so overexcited!"

You have NO idea

and that is an unnecessarily spiteful remark.

OP posts:

duchesse · 18/09/2009 17:22

Many five year olds love factual books, particularly ones with pictures of machinery. He almost certainly chose this book. Anything that grabs a child's interest in the early stages of reading is GOOD. My son's constant companion at this stage was the DK Human Body book, complete with gruesome pics of entire bodies.

I think you are being extremely precious and also overriding your son's choice of reading/perusing material and are being very very unreasonable.

Doodlez · 18/09/2009 17:34

S'me - Doodle2u (just seen further down thread that there is a poster called DoodleBoo - s'not me).

Now then, my DS did WWII last year in Yr 3. They focused on the impact it had on children, evacuees, shelters, food shortages and stuff like that. So, they didn't get in to the nitty gritty of war as such but the 'subject' was covered.

For me, at this age (bearing in mind he was TWO years older than your DS), it was enough. He knows there was a war, he can delve into the true horrors of it at a later date, IMO.

So, I agree, the book was inappropriate for a little 5 year old. I think the teacher herself being shocked tells you what you really need to know and confirms your belief in her - she's a good teacher but this incident slipped under her radar.

Well done.

bumpsoon · 18/09/2009 17:47

Tbh i agree with those that think YABU , He chose a book that appealed to him ,it is BIG ,it has pictures of guns and tanks etc .Yes it does have pictures of terrified children / holocaust victims ,but he probably would flick over those pages to see more guns and tanks

MmeLindt · 18/09/2009 18:02

I am so surprised that so many people thought that GS was being unreasonable.

Yes, he might flick over the pics of holocaust victims to see more pictures of tanks, but is that a risk that is acceptable?Is that really an image that we think a 5yo should be exposed to? He does not read yet, he is very visually influenced.

An age appropriate book about the evacuations or the home front would be ok, but not a graphic adult reference book.

GS,
I am glad that the teacher was so apologetic and I am sure that she will pay a bit more attention to the books that children are taking out.

Original poster

Greensleeves · 18/09/2009 18:15

duchesse, my sons have several very graphic books about the human body and anatomy posters on the walls - it's one of ds1's AS obsessions

I am not in the habit of censoring their reading although I am careful about TV violence etc

I just felt that an adult book about the atrocities of war, with pictures I personally find upsetting, was not appropriate for a 5yo

It's interesting that so many people are assuming I am a control freak who doesn't allow my children near anything stronger than Noddy - that's really isn't the case at all

OP posts:

Original poster

Greensleeves · 18/09/2009 18:16

and bumpsoon, he chose this book because he thought it was about star wars, as I've said at least three times...

OP posts:

kateGB · 18/09/2009 20:37

Greensleeves, you sound like a very responsible and caring parent who, in the end, calmed down (!) and approached the teacher who was obviously shocked. These things happen!

In 20 years time you will have a great story to tell and embarrass you DS with about the time when he was 5 and he brought home a book on world war 2 because he thought it was about star wars !

A similar thing happened to my sis in law when my then 8 year old niece brought home a fictional book about underage pregnancy from the classroom library! An error in cateloging of great proportions !

kateGB · 18/09/2009 20:40

Greensleeves, you sound like a very responsible and caring parent who, in the end, calmed down (!) and approached the teacher who was obviously shocked. These things happen!

In 20 years time you will have a great story to tell and embarrass you DS with about the time when he was 5 and he brought home a book on world war 2 because he thought it was about star wars !

edam · 18/09/2009 22:30

duchesse, I really don't think you can compare a DK - children's - book on the human body with an adult work full of pictures of concentration camps as the Allies rolled in. Anatomy v. atrocity - not the same thing at all.

Original poster

Greensleeves · 18/09/2009 22:30

Aw, thanks KateGB

I love the idea that one day we will laugh about it - I felt like such a bitch last night after I'd blundered in with my big feet and made him cry. He is such a deliciously bright-eyed and ebullient little bean, and he hadn't done anything wrong, poor little love, he must have been really shocked when I reacted the way I did

she is a fantastic teacher by the way, she worked wonders with my ds1 last year and I do trust her. She reacted exactly as I'd hoped she would.

I am on my own with ds2 this week, ds1 and dh are away - so have made a real fuss of him tonight, cooked his favourite dinner and watched some of his favourite cartoons with him and carried him up to bed after a Just So story that made him giggle - am feeling MUCH better

thanks for all the advice, even the blunter posts - I WAS overreacting in how upset I was, although I still don't think the book was appropriate [stubborn]

OP posts:

GetOrfMoiLand · 18/09/2009 22:54

Greensleeves - I am surprised at the amount of pretty unreasonable posts you have got in response to this. Of course it is completely inappropriate that a 5 year-old should see those pictures. I remember being completely disturbed looking at a reference book which had pictures of pits full of bodies, and one tragic picture of a corpse of a baby with a distended stomach, which had starved to death in Leningrad. Those images are seared onto my brain. And I was 10 when I looked at that book.

You have been very conscientous and dealt with it in a calm and measured way.

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